New guy with a few questions......

joshua · Apr 11, 2015

Hello,

I've never done any engraving at all and would appreciate any advice or recommendations from yall.

I have a few specific questions as well.

I bought a Hermes Model M.

Where is a good source for cutting tips?

Any suggestions on what tips I should start with? I'm looking for 'sharp' letters and numbers. I'll be engraving on flat and round surfaces.

I want to be able to have a few catch all type tips and then some for specific work as well. I would imagine I'll mess around with it and want to engrave knives, pens, etc for friends as gifts.

Most of my use will be firearm related. I'm a gunsmith and want to start engraving caliber info on barrels as opposed to outsourcing that work. From time to time I may also engrave receivers. Gun metals will be what I'll be engraving as soon as I can.

For this sort of engraving would yall use cutting oil?

I'm also wondering who might make me a stencil (something to guide me) if I want new or different stuff like a way to engrave the outline of my logo or something else similar.

Thanks for any help and I really would appreciate any help or suggestions to get me started.

Sam · Apr 12, 2015

Welcome to the forum, joshua. This is primarily a hand engraving forum, but a few members are familiar with and use mechanical engraving systems. I'm sure someone will give you some advice.

Our Tips Archive is a great place, but I doubt you'll find much there pertaining to machine engraving.

monk · Apr 12, 2015

i posted an article(s) in the tips section about making your own templates and such. i nearly have a phd in the use of pantographs, and all that goes with it. if you like, 724-470-7214--- 9pm till 1am est. will work. phone calls are cheap, wasting time & resources/mtls. is costly ! it's your dime !

KCSteve · Apr 12, 2015

Another option would be etching. Check out the KnifeDogs forum (http://www.knifedogs.com) - they have a nice choice of kits for electroetching. It's a common way for knifemakers to do their marks.

Note that you can't use etching for serial numbers - there's a legal requirement for a minimum depth on serial numbers.

joshua · Apr 12, 2015

monk said:
i posted an article(s) in the tips section about making your own templates and such. i nearly have a phd in the use of pantographs, and all that goes with it. if you like, 724-470-7214--- 9pm till 1am est. will work. phone calls are cheap, wasting time & resources/mtls. is costly ! it's your dime !

monk, I'll take you up on that and call next week. Thank you very much.

joshua · Apr 12, 2015

sam said:
Welcome to the forum, joshua. This is primarily a hand engraving forum, but a few members are familiar with and use mechanical engraving systems. I'm sure someone will give you some advice.

Our Tips Archive is a great place, but I doubt you'll find much there pertaining to machine engraving.

Thank you. I checked through the Tips, but I'll check again just to be certain.

I appreciate the help and info. I doubt I'll have time to attempt any real hand engraving and we have a few good people around here doing that.

I sure do enjoy the nice engraving some of yall do on these firearms.

joshua · Apr 12, 2015

KCSteve said:
Another option would be etching. Check out the KnifeDogs forum (http://www.knifedogs.com) - they have a nice choice of kits for electroetching. It's a common way for knifemakers to do their marks.

Note that you can't use etching for serial numbers - there's a legal requirement for a minimum depth on serial numbers.

Yeah, I like the look when they electroetch the knives. I'll only do a few if I can do it decent. I'll have to practice a little first and see if it's even doable. My main use is just to put the caliber on a barrel and maybe do a few things on a receiver if I could make the letters and numbers sharp enough. Thank you for the info.

DakotaDocMartin · Apr 12, 2015

joshua said:
Yeah, I like the look when they electroetch the knives. I'll only do a few if I can do it decent. I'll have to practice a little first and see if it's even doable. My main use is just to put the caliber on a barrel and maybe do a few things on a receiver if I could make the letters and numbers sharp enough. Thank you for the info.

If you are going to use a pantograph engraver for what you mentioned, I would suggest getting a motorized pantograph. That way, the metal is actually removed and not displaced as with the drag type of engraving. It will end up a lot nicer and won't raise a bur around it. Also, you can go much deeper.

Steve L S · Apr 13, 2015

Hi Joshua. This is a link to a pdf manual “A manual for machine engravers” written by Charles Harwood-Matthews dated 1993.
http://people.albion.edu/rhoughto/PDF/Engraving/Engravers Manual Finished.pdf

It answers the questions you have asked. Pantographs as you know have been largely replaced by cnc machines but the cost of a rotary cnc machine which can do the work of one of the larger pantographs with a cylindrical attachment is astronomical, not to mention the maintenance contract which is an absolute necessity. Worth it for a busy machine engraving shop but not so for the rest of us

Panto lettering/numbering looks like a cyborg wrote it – Dead! Mr Brittain who was the boss of an engraving business in London recognized that problem, he never solved it but improved it by having his hand engravers make their own master copies. In his book “Engraving on precious metals” A Brittain and P Morton, he does not precisely describe how the hand engravers made the masters but I think it is the same method “Monk” describes in the tips section. Photopolymers have severely disappointed many of us but technology has advanced and it is time to forgive them for their past foul bites eg ImagOn HD works well for me along with the mordant ‘Edinburgh Etch’ on brass bronze and copper . But if you wish to try photopolymers as master templates then PnP Blue is much easier and faster to use. You will not be able to avoid some foul bite with PnP but that does not matter with a template

Steve
ps thanks to Monk for all your work with pantos, it has helped me

joshua · Apr 13, 2015

DakotaDocMartin said:
If you are going to use a pantograph engraver for what you mentioned, I would suggest getting a motorized pantograph. That way, the metal is actually removed and not displaced as with the drag type of engraving. It will end up a lot nicer and won't raise a bur around it. Also, you can go much deeper.

This one is motorized and seems to be able to easily go deep in different barrel materials.

It arrived today and I messed with it a little. I think I'm going to need to try a few new tips to see what runs the cleanest, but I'm off to a decent start. Thank you

joshua · Apr 13, 2015

Steve L S said:
Hi Joshua. This is a link to a pdf manual “A manual for machine engravers” written by Charles Harwood-Matthews dated 1993.
http://people.albion.edu/rhoughto/PDF/Engraving/Engravers Manual Finished.pdf

It answers the questions you have asked. Pantographs as you know have been largely replaced by cnc machines but the cost of a rotary cnc machine which can do the work of one of the larger pantographs with a cylindrical attachment is astronomical, not to mention the maintenance contract which is an absolute necessity. Worth it for a busy machine engraving shop but not so for the rest of us

Panto lettering/numbering looks like a cyborg wrote it – Dead! Mr Brittain who was the boss of an engraving business in London recognized that problem, he never solved it but improved it by having his hand engravers make their own master copies. In his book “Engraving on precious metals” A Brittain and P Morton, he does not precisely describe how the hand engravers made the masters but I think it is the same method “Monk” describes in the tips section. Photopolymers have severely disappointed many of us but technology has advanced and it is time to forgive them for their past foul bites eg ImagOn HD works well for me along with the mordant ‘Edinburgh Etch’ on brass bronze and copper . But if you wish to try photopolymers as master templates then PnP Blue is much easier and faster to use. You will not be able to avoid some foul bite with PnP but that does not matter with a template

Steve
ps thanks to Monk for all your work with pantos, it has helped me

That pdf looks to be very helpful and than you for all of the information.

monk · Apr 13, 2015

KCSteve said:
Another option would be etching. Check out the KnifeDogs forum (http://www.knifedogs.com) - they have a nice choice of kits for electroetching. It's a common way for knifemakers to do their marks.

Note that you can't use etching for serial numbers - there's a legal requirement for a minimum depth on serial numbers.

i did a batch of aluminum receivers that had to be embellished by machine- mostly logos and the place of manufacture. the gunsmith told me minimum depth of .012". not sure if this is standard thruout the states.

KCSteve · Apr 14, 2015

monk said:
i did a batch of aluminum receivers that had to be embellished by machine- mostly logos and the place of manufacture. the gunsmith told me minimum depth of .012". not sure if this is standard thruout the states.

For logos and MFR that minimum might have been more to do with any planned finishing technique - a lot of coatings will fill in and essentially erase a mark that's too shallow. I'm sure there's an ATF publication that will tell you all the details on serial numbers, including minimum depth. As I recall it came up in a thread on inlaying serial numbers.

New guy with a few questions......

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