background removal

mtlctr · Apr 7, 2015

Hello all,
I will preface this by saying i've read a bulk of the prior posts on this subject. Most of my work is on ML rifles & pistols so mostly line/ border work so the background removal was not needed. I would like to try it now. When inlaying in wood i use a shallow gouge to take out the bulk of the wood and finish up with a flat. the gouge gives great control and "behaves" well. I guess there is many ways to "skin a cat" just seems like less chance of slippage with a round bottom first. appreciate all advise / opinions.:hammer:

Big-Un · Apr 7, 2015

Do the same thing, only on a much smaller scale.

Bill

GTJC460 · Apr 7, 2015

I cut a point graver to cut parallel lines in the field. Then I use my Foredom micro motor grind the tops off and level. I use .6mm ball burs, cones and crosscut burs to get into really small nooks. These are the tungsten vanadium jewelry burs.

The micromotor is a lot easier to control than the ultra high speed metal erasers.

I used to hate doing relief, but don't mind it since I got a micromotor. It saves a boatload of time and is super easy.

All you have to do afterwards is texture the relieved areas.

mfennessy · Apr 7, 2015

I use a 90 to remove the bulk of the background, then a very very thin flat to go around the edges. That makes kind of a safe area and the thin flat is easier to control than a bigger one. Then use a small to medium flat to bring down the rest of the area and then a pointed stipple to cover the whole area so it will be flat black when darkened.

I think that's a pretty common method.

mtlctr · Apr 8, 2015

mfennessy said:
I use a 90 to remove the bulk of the background, then a very very thin flat to go around the edges. That makes kind of a safe area and the thin flat is easier to control than a bigger one. Then use a small to medium flat to bring down the rest of the area and then a pointed stipple to cover the whole area so it will be flat black when darkened.

I think that's a pretty common method.

I like the idea of the "warning track" with the thin flat so u won't jump the ditch so to speak.

Lonestarr · Apr 8, 2015

Question if you will...What are the thin flats measurements, both the rise and width of the nose? Also is the nose tapered?

thanks Bob

jerrywh · Apr 8, 2015

There is no simple answer to this question because it depends on the area and the surrounding elements. I often use at least three to six different tools. The flats I use for that usually have a 25Â° heel. If it is a large area I use a wide flat what ever works best. Sometimes I even use a liner wit ha curved belly.

Big-Un · Apr 8, 2015

i have a friend that sells dental supplies and he gave me some diamond dental bits to try. After using carbide bits, the diamond bits are absolutely unbelievable. They cut great and haven't dulled yet, after some serious use. If you're using power to remove background, bite the bullet and get some diamond burrs.
I normally remove background by cutting the outlines with a 116 on the outside of the line (toward the part to be removed) leaning the graver into the part to be removed. Then I either use the diamond bits for removal or use a round graver to remove the bulk of the material followed by flats, then stipple. After all the background is removed, I go back and recut the design giving them "beauty" cuts and finish the details. Either way, it ain't easy!
Bill

Sam · Apr 9, 2015

Big-Un said:
i have a friend that sells dental supplies and he gave me some diamond dental bits to try. After using carbide bits, the diamond bits are absolutely unbelievable. They cut great and haven't dulled yet, after some serious use. If you're using power to remove background, bite the bullet and get some diamond burrs.
I normally remove background by cutting the outlines with a 116 on the outside of the line (toward the part to be removed) leaning the graver into the part to be removed. Then I either use the diamond bits for removal or use a round graver to remove the bulk of the material followed by flats, then stipple. After all the background is removed, I go back and recut the design giving them "beauty" cuts and finish the details. Either way, it ain't easy!
Bill

Can you give us more info on those diamond burs? Do they come in .4 or .5mm sizes? Those are the carbide ball bur sizes I normally use. I had no idea diamond burs good for this.

Lonestarr · Apr 9, 2015

The diamond burs that I have bought off the internet have their diamonds affixed by a plating process which will go south when grinding carbide....It is my understanding that diamond bur manufactures have to use a sinering process to make the burs somewhat indestructible.....I have looked high and low, to no avail, to find a supplier of sinered diamond bur grits that range from medium to very fine......
any help would be appreciated.....

Bob

JJ Roberts · Apr 9, 2015

I use a single point 90 degree graver and cross hatch out the background and then stipple. J.J.

Big-Un · Apr 10, 2015

sam said:
Can you give us more info on those diamond burs? Do they come in .4 or .5mm sizes? Those are the carbide ball bur sizes I normally use. I had no idea diamond burs good for this.

Here is the info on the burrs:
Spring Diamonds
Spring Health Products, Inc
705 General Washington Ave
Suite 701
Norristown, PA 19405
1-800-800-1680
www.springhealthproducts.com

That is not all available, but those pictures didn't make it to my computer through the I-phone.

Bill

Lonestarr · Apr 11, 2015

Hey Big Un i did not see any prices on there website, it looked like you have to go through a dental supply to purchase???

Big-Un · Apr 13, 2015

I didn't buy these. A friend is a dental salesman and gave me them to me to try when we were talking about my engraving. You may need to talk with your dentist and see if he can get the "sample" pack from his supplier, which is what I have. The picture doesn't do justice, as there are different degrees of fine-coarse burrs as well as all kinds of shapes, from fine points to balls to cones.

Bill

delder · Apr 15, 2015

Received a package of diamond burs today from Diatech USA. They don't grab, and leave a nice rough finish. Smooth, but enough texture to perhaps not need stippling ? Don't know about that yet.I've only tried them on sterling and brass. One thing I am seeing , is a bit of build up on the tip. Perhaps that's the soft metal gumming up on the tip.

Doc Mark · Apr 15, 2015

Delder, ask you dentist if he/she has any extra diamond bur cleaners. It is a "soft" porous ceramic stone that cleans out the particles around the embedded diamond chips. You run the diamond in the handpiece while grinding away at the cleaning stone. It doesn't take much to clean the bur with one of these stones.

Sam · Apr 15, 2015

Doc Mark said:
Delder, ask you dentist if he/she has any extra diamond bur cleaners. It is a "soft" porous ceramic stone that cleans out the particles around the embedded diamond chips. You run the diamond in the handpiece while grinding away at the cleaning stone. It doesn't take much to clean the bur with one of these stones.

Mark, have you tried diamond burs for background removal?

Doc Mark · Apr 15, 2015

Sam, no I only use 1/4mm, round carbide burs for background removal. I do, however, use many different shapes and grits of diamond burs for my Cameo and Ivory carving. I've never liked the "feel" of diamond on metal. Many thousands of times I used diamond burs to remove or to shape old metal (amalgams, titanium posts etc.) within teeth to prepare them for new crowns. I think you get a smoother result with carbide burs, plus it seems to me (admittedly, a sample of one) that carbides are more "controllable" with a high speed handpiece.

Sam · Apr 15, 2015

Doc Mark said:
Sam, no I only use 1/4mm, round carbide burs for background removal. I do, however, use many different shapes and grits of diamond burs for my Cameo and Ivory carving. I've never liked the "feel" of diamond on metal. Many thousands of times I used diamond burs to remove or to shape old metal (amalgams, titanium posts etc.) within teeth to prepare them for new crowns. I think you get a smoother result with carbide burs, plus it seems to me (admittedly, a sample of one) that carbides are more "controllable" with a high speed handpiece.

Thanks buddy

I know you have more experience with burs than most people!

davidshe · Apr 16, 2015

sam said:
Can you give us more info on those diamond burs? Do they come in .4 or .5mm sizes? Those are the carbide ball bur sizes I normally use. I had no idea diamond burs good for this.

I found some #1/8 carbide burs that measure about .4mm. They work well in tight places where my normal 1/4 round burs are a bit too big but wear out pretty quickly and cost about $3.50 each from profitablehobbies online store. I was hoping maybe Sam or someone else may have a better source for .4mm or smaller carbide burs? I also tried a couple of diamond needle burs but don't care for them much similar to what Mark mentioned. Thanks!

background removal

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