Graver geometry for hand pushing

Sam

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heel.jpg

face.jpg

Face:
Toolpost angle 35°
Rotation angle offset 10° to the left of 0.

Heel:
Rotation angle 40°
Graver is rocked from 0° to 15° to produce a large curved heel.

Offsetting the rotation angle moves the right cutting edge forward (or the left cutting edge back) so the graver favors a counter-clockwise (anti-clockwise) cutting direction.

If you're interested in hand pushing, then this is an easy graver to make.
 

phil

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Hi Sam. Most of the work I do is hand pushed and there is no question that the geometries used for power assist are very difficult to control when hand pushing. This is particularly noticeable when cutting straight lines. Power assist geometries will not cut easily. They seem OK with curves yet still more difficult to control than when a long heel with much lower face angle of 35 - 40 degrees is used. As for the offset, so the cutting edge is more inclined towards the left to help with the constant counter clockwise cutting then again a noticeable improvement is made.
It is a shame that many of the newcomers seem convinced that to produce good work that power tools and microscopes are essential. With copper or silver, a block of wood to bond the metal to and a sandbag for ease of manipulation then great work can be produced. It is only by diligent practice and attention to the detail that one can become a good engraver, whether one leads towards inscription engraving, ornamental or a combination.
I believe that if everyone learned the hand push techniques to the extent that you know when a cut is going well and the point where you know you are getting in trouble and have to flick the chip out and "do a little tweaking" then they would be much more proficient than having a power graver bulldoze its way through the metal.
Building up lettering with multiple ribbon cuts or threading is beautiful and a pleasure to do. I much prefer that to hogging out large wide cuts to make up the heavy parts of letters.
I also find that little reference is ever made to the gravers used in the UK. It seems that in the US the preferred gravers would be wide geometry 105 or 120 degree gravers. Common practice here is for a lozenge graver to be used narrow side down. I haven't measured the angle of this tool but I estimate it to be maybe 65 or 75 degrees. It certainly is easier to push than a standard 90. I guess the extra width of the others adds more resistance against the tool as it passes through the metal.
 

monk

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Hi Sam. Most of the work I do is hand pushed and there is no question that the geometries used for power assist are very difficult to control when hand pushing. This is particularly noticeable when cutting straight lines. Power assist geometries will not cut easily. They seem OK with curves yet still more difficult to control than when a long heel with much lower face angle of 35 - 40 degrees is used. As for the offset, so the cutting edge is more inclined towards the left to help with the constant counter clockwise cutting then again a noticeable improvement is made.

It is a shame that many of the newcomers seem convinced that to produce good work that power tools and microscopes are essential. With copper or silver, a block of wood to bond the metal to and a sandbag for ease of manipulation then great work can be produced. It is only by diligent practice and attention to the detail that one can become a good engraver, whether one leads towards inscription engraving, ornamental or a combination.
I believe that if everyone learned the hand push techniques to the extent that you know when a cut is going well and the point where you know you are getting in trouble and have to flick the chip out and "do a little tweaking" then they would be much more proficient than having a power graver bulldoze its way through the metal.
Building up lettering with multiple ribbon cuts or threading is beautiful and a pleasure to do. I much prefer that to hogging out large wide cuts to make up the heavy parts of letters.
I also find that little reference is ever made to the gravers used in the UK. It seems that in the US the preferred gravers would be wide geometry 105 or 120 degree gravers. Common practice here is for a lozenge graver to be used narrow side down. I haven't measured the angle of this tool but I estimate it to be maybe 65 or 75 degrees. It certainly is easier to push than a standard 90. I guess the extra width of the others adds more resistance against the tool as it passes through the metal.
great stuff, sir. for the longest time i tried to interest a newbie to begin pushgraving before power. after awhile, i soon realized i was wasting my breath. when using power, i sometimes turn it off and just continue pushing manually. i love the feel of the graver slicing thru the metal. it just feels good ! the advice about the geometries-- took me a long time to figure this all out, but there are differences in the way cutting occurs.
 

monk

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heel rotation of 40-- is that left or right of zero ? either way ,is 0-15 rocked in the vertical plane ? i ask, as i'm not sure of your intention here, sam. could you please respond when time allows ?
 
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phil

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Monk. I would assume the 40 degree heel angle is used both to the left and right of centre so that in effect you are making a narrower graver than a standard 90 degree. Similar width to the narrow lozenge that I have described above.
It would be essential to have the heel meeting straight down the centre of the tool, yet by rotating the face by 10 degrees to the left, thecutting edge is inclined more towards the left so that counter clockwise cutting is made easier.
The 0 to 15 degree rocking would be for the vertical plane when forming the heel.
I may be wrong though....... so we will wait for our benevolent leader..... By the way Sam. I'm not sure if it is my old peepers but is benevolent spelled benovelent in your avatar picture? Its been bothering me for years.
I hope you are all well and have nice weekends planned.
 

Sam

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Thanks for your comments, Phil. You know more about this than I do since I was 90% hammer & chisel and only used hand gravers for shading. I appreciate your input on the subject and would like to know more about how the UK guys prepare their tools.

Monk: I used the GRS Dual Angle sharpener. The 40° part is the rotation angle on the front of the fixture. The other angle is the toolpost angle. I hope that makes sense.

Phil: I couldn't read it either so I got rid of the graphic and used red text!
 

monk

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Monk. I would assume the 40 degree heel angle is used both to the left and right of centre so that in effect you are making a narrower graver than a standard 90 degree. Similar width to the narrow lozenge that I have described above.
It would be essential to have the heel meeting straight down the centre of the tool, yet by rotating the face by 10 degrees to the left, thecutting edge is inclined more towards the left so that counter clockwise cutting is made easier.
The 0 to 15 degree rocking would be for the vertical plane when forming the heel.
I may be wrong though....... so we will wait for our benevolent leader..... By the way Sam. I'm not sure if it is my old peepers but is benevolent spelled benovelent in your avatar picture? Its been bothering me for years.
I hope you are all well and have nice weekends planned.
thanks, phil. sometimes words have a way of being interpreted the wrong way. in my case, it happens way too often. the way you explained is more easily understood. tyvm
 

monk

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ok,sam. i got a "handle on it-- finally. thanks. will try this tonite.
 

jerrywh

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Slanting the face 10° leads me to believe that you are cutting all the curves by going to the left. If that is so does it mean that one should have another graver sharpened the opposite for right hand curves? Don Glaser taught that way for making script cutting engravers.
 

monk

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Slanting the face 10° leads me to believe that you are cutting all the curves by going to the left. If that is so does it mean that one should have another graver sharpened the opposite for right hand curves? Don Glaser taught that way for making script cutting engravers.
jerry: not sure- but that really seems to make sense to have a graver ground both ways.
 
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