My humble attempt

I wish he had offered constructive criticism rather than a negative response

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I suggest you read my posts again.......they are constructive. Telling someone what they are doing is great when it is not, is for children. Not for adults trying to learn something.

For the "Attaboy's" out there........keep up the thoroughly good work. Your doing really well

You may also want to read Sanch's responses.

Man you are so far out of line with your first your first sentence I don't know what to say other than I have ZERO respect for someone that calls someone elses art crap

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So now it's art?........please. Lets stick to a bit of reality. And for the record, I was speaking in general terms, not specifying Sanch's efforts.

To be very honest your the very reason I haven't considered GRS products!!

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What on earth do GRS products have to do with any of this???? We are talking pencil, paper and design.

If people ask for critique then they get it...........it is up to the person seeking that critique to do something with it, or not, as the case may be. If they, or others rushing in to protect their feelings, wish to be offended and have their feeling hurt about their "art". Then don't ask. It's pretty simple really

Cheers
Andrew

This is the reason a lot of the master engravers have stopped giving critiques. Say something honest everyone jumps you. Give an attaboy and you either make people think something is great when it is not or make people with the knowledge think less of you.

Good critique Andrew. Keep shooting from the hip. I for one appreciate it. BTW it looks better than my drawings did for a long time.

I deleted as I don't feel I have anything positive to add.

my two cents
Im a absolutly Beginner but I´ve learned a lot in my life. Critique isnt disrespectfull never !!!
The people in my life they said im not good enough. "you have to work harder!" driven me to learn moore and moore and thats how skill is growing
sure Talent is nice but thats only 5% on the way the rest is hard work and passion

I said I`m at the beginnig but if you want to draw scrolls you have to know scrolls are drawings from Nature. Nature is Math and Math has rules.
Open your eyes and look at the symethry in the Nature. The same like Music if you follow the rules everything is in a perfect harmony but if there is a wrong note the whole song is not longer in harmony.

Carlos made a tips site with wonderfull books and dvds mutch of the rules you can learn from them.
+ http://www.engraverscafe.com/showth...-never-ending-redundant-questions-(no-offence)
Don´t be frustrated my drawings are on the same level than yours

at last sorry about my bad english I try my best
chris

keep... Private Messages Private...please..

.Keeping neutral here

Saludos,
Carlos

Okay, this is all getting rather silly and weird. In reference to the deleted posts that some of you have read.

For the record. so there are no misunderstandings...........

I am a full time professional engraver. That is how I make my living. I work from home and still humbled by the fact that people buy my work. All I can ever see are my mistakes and how the work can be improved. Hindsight is a wonderful thing

GRS......I am not an instructor that takes classes. I am a demonstrator for them and very proud of it. I go to a few overseas shows a year demonstrating their product which I use exclusively. Great company, generous, encouraging, fantastic people and an awesome product that I am more than happy to endorse and demonstrate. The shows are a lot of fun and I get to meet some outstanding artisans and crafts people from all over the world. Hopefully they get to take away a little bit of what I show them.

Master Engraver.......No, I am not a Master Engraver but if people want to call me that, then I am comfortable with it. All compliments are gratefully received and flattery will get you everywhere

I am also on the FEGA BOD in charge of the FEGA Master Engravers program and the FEGA Engraver magazine editor.

I think that's about it...oh yeah......and I do all the cooking at home

Cheers
Andrew

HOLY CRAP!! IT WAS A 20 MINUTE SKETCH. THOSE WHO FELT LIKE I WAS BEING BEAT DOWN THANKS FOR THE BACKING EVEN THOUGH IT WASN'T NECESSARY IM NOT OFFENDED BY ANDREWS CRITIQUE AT ALL HE CAME OFF A LITTLE ABRASIVE BUT TRUTHFUL AND JUST SO YOU ALL KNOW IM NOT KISSING
A$$ I AM LOOKING AT THE OPINION OF AN EXPERIENCED ENGRAVER. I HAVE NO NEED FOR PATS ON MY BACK HELL I HAVE MADE ALL OF THE TOOLS I AM USING AND I KNOW I CAN DRAW. SCROLLS AND LEAVES AND THE LIKE I JUST NEED TO PRACTICE. ....

@Andrew you are blunt and definitely not the first critical person I have come across but no need to get bunched up about it one way or the other, I just now read all that's been going on and am pretty sure that my skin is holding out ok. One thing though I instruct for a living (adults) and I never feel the need to autaboy, (by this I mean give undue credit) nor do I feel like a kick in the bean bag is necessary (by this I mean to discourage by any means)...reality can be harsh sure, but in moderation it's like aNY thing to be enjoyed.

sanch said:

agreed, but I intended to "fill" in that space as you can see how light it is in the sketch. also I wound up getting rid of it all together the design itself is progressing and has changed already as im sure it will keep doing till I feel im cluttering it up!

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sorry, ole chap. i thought that was to be left that way. had i known you were intending to fill in there, i'd have no reason to have said that.

As a real rank beginner drawing when I find time which is never enough but that's my schedule I have chosen

After reading this post I have learnt a lot. One thing I don't yet process the drawing skills of the original poster
But have discovered that I have been starting from no where So how can I go anywhere

SO THANKS ANDREW Now this stubborn Pig Headed old fella Can look at what he is doing & where he is going
We all need the occasional clip on the head to wake us up as we get older
You can either take it or leave it when you get told
But it takes a great person to take it on board & strive to perfect

Every body should have had teachers like we old ones had in school most were ex WW2 vet's & wouldn't
accept less than the best each could give, and they certainly didn't have the softly, softly approach
Cheers
From nobody relevant

I think Sanch would be better off studying and copying the work of Nimschke for starters. This is where drawing discipline comes into play that will pay off handsomely in the future. It does not mean he has to engrave Nimschke style the rest of his life or even once. But developing an eye for pleasing design with appropriate balance of positive and negative space is extremely important, and it will pay off with lettering, portraits, and everything else you do your entire engraving career.

Sanch asked for critique and he got honest critique from someone who knows more about art and design than a lot of us. If some of you don't like that then just move on.

monk said:

sorry, ole chap. i thought that was to be left that way. had i known you were intending to fill in there, i'd have no reason to have said that.

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nope! its alright I laid the thing to rest after looking at it again.