Question: Which blades would be best for this type work?

vikkiwillis · Mar 3, 2015

Hello folks! I'm Vikki, and new here. I'm a silversmith interested in learning some engraving skills. I've researched a bit, read a couple of books, and an ready to purchase a few tools. I am going to try and include a picture of the "type" of work I want to do. It is primitive, outsider-art type carving (?) But exactly what I want to do. I have several clients looking for this style. So, what I need to know is can this work be done with palm pushing, and if yes, which blade? Knife blade? Size... 1? Or does it appear to be several different blades? I am mostly interested in the top part of the locket, with the cabin, mountain and trees. The scroll work below it not so much. Has anyone used the pre sharpened blades, new traditional? And if so, do they need additional prep before hitting the metal? I would love to learn everything about this art, but for the immediate need I hope there is an alternative "take out of the box and start practicing." (Maybe that's what everyone would hope for.) If anyone could offer some direction I surely would appreciate it. I've tried hand stamps and punches, but my work is confined to only those shapes of punches I own. I wanna go free flow! Ok. So now I'm going to try and upload this pic. I'm not so great at tech stuff. Better with a chasing hammer! Haha...https://www.etsy.com/listing/155418775/valentine-sale-antique-victorian

dlilazteca · Mar 3, 2015

Hello, welcome, that engraving is not all that simple, try cutting two parallel lines, one of the hardest things to do especially on a curved scroll. It appears to also be sculpted (another learning curve)

You might want use the search button, there is a tool list for beginners there.

http://www.engraver.com/bulino-techniques-for-landscapes-dvd-by-christian-decamillis/

http://www.engraver.com/basic-technique-for-bulino-engraving-dvd-by-christian-decamillis/

http://www.scrimshaw-by-sandra-brady.com/product_detail.php?prod_id=232

dlilazteca · Mar 3, 2015

http://www.engraverscafe.com/showth...-never-ending-redundant-questions-(no-offence)

monk · Mar 3, 2015

welcome. if i understand correctly, you want to engrave knife blades. store- bought blades are generally difficult to do. the only easy way is to work with a knife maker who will send you blades in the annealed (soft) state. for a rank beginner even the annealed blade will likely give you fits right away. true, you could anneal blades yourself. then you have to re-temper them. this requires taking a knife apart, then re-assembling it. doing "primitive" designs, is no easy out either. whatever you draw, no matter how primitive, it must be cut with some degree of control.
it's sad, but if you choose to do this , you will have to learn and practice. perhaps contacting a knife maker would be a way to get started.
i'd think since you're already familiar with the techniques in very soft metal, continuing the same techniques in the tough stuff might be the way to go without going to the poor house. for those seeking "instant results, right out of the box", i'd hesitate to advise that person to drop big bucks. jmho good luck

vikkiwillis · Mar 3, 2015

Wow! I believe that is it exactly! Thank you so very much.

vikkiwillis · Mar 3, 2015

Thank you Monk. It's jewelry I'm making, and yes in silver and copper. By blade I meant the graver. Wrong word. Graver. But Carlos I think has directed me towards the dvd and techniques I will need to study. And I'm excited to practice, just not able to invest a great deal of money. Maybe I should wait until I can. But that day never seems to arrive. I'm going to purchase the dvd for sure. I've watched a few off the you tube videos that engraver has on his channel and that's exactly what I hope to do one day. Thanks again!

mtlctr · Mar 3, 2015

vikkiwillis said:
Hello folks! I'm Vikki, and new here. I'm a silversmith interested in learning some engraving skills. I've researched a bit, read a couple of books, and an ready to purchase a few tools. I am going to try and include a picture of the "type" of work I want to do. It is primitive, outsider-art type carving (?) But exactly what I want to do. I have several clients looking for this style. So, what I need to know is can this work be done with palm pushing, and if yes, which blade? Knife blade? Size... 1? Or does it appear to be several different blades? I am mostly interested in the top part of the locket, with the cabin, mountain and trees. The scroll work below it not so much. Has anyone used the pre sharpened blades, new traditional? And if so, do they need additional prep before hitting the metal? I would love to learn everything about this art, but for the immediate need I hope there is an alternative "take out of the box and start practicing." (Maybe that's what everyone would hope for.) If anyone could offer some direction I surely would appreciate it. I've tried hand stamps and punches, but my work is confined to only those shapes of punches I own. I wanna go free flow! Ok. So now I'm going to try and upload this pic. I'm not so great at tech stuff. Better with a chasing hammer! Haha...https://www.etsy.com/listing/155418775/valentine-sale-antique-victorian

i looked at the box, its not engraved but chased & punched from the back side. the barn and a few of the features could be push engraved but I dont think so. look here and I think this is what you are talking about. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RepoussÃ©_and_chasing

vikkiwillis · Mar 3, 2015

Hi MTLCTR: I thought the waves below the dbl lines was repousse', and I'm not gonna get into all that... even tho it's certainly gorgeous, and I even considered the landscape might have been punched, but those two long lines that separate the work seem engraved with a thin blade "graver" because punches, no matter how delicate one strikes with the hammer, the metal is pushed, indented. Those beautiful lines look carved, bc the metal is so smooth around them. And the shading around the edges looks like engraving. I just wonder if this box was a student's technique sample work? Several silversmith techniques are used. It's so simple yet so complicated. I feel in love with it when I discovered it months ago. I probably just need to buy the darn thing bc it's beauty and simplicity has both haunted and inspired my work since.

Andrew Biggs · Mar 3, 2015

Hi Vikki

The style you want is loosely called bulino.

It is a style that used a series of small lines and dots to build up a scene using many cuts/dots to make dark shadows and less lines/dots to make light areas.

It is one of the simplest forms of engraving that you can get into and the designs can be a simple or as complex as you wish.

You will need a push graver handle. A square graver and a stone to sharpen it on (and a bench grinder to shape the graver) plus something to hold the work securely...........somewhere on this form or youtube, Sam Alfano shows you how to sharpen by hand. You need a very sharp graver

All of that will cost you next to nothing and you will be good to go.........the only other thing you will need is a bit of practice to learn some muscle memory. Because you are only doing very short lines then you should practice cutting very small and shallow cuts. I would advise learning on mild steel as it gives good resistance to the cut and is easy to work with.

So for a few dollars and practice you can get started.

You can buy all this from GRS. If you live outside of the USA you will be able to buy from one of the dealers or from the internet site rio Grande.

Good luck, enjoy the process and have some fun with it

Cheers
Andrew

DanM · Mar 3, 2015

The mountain/house scene appears to have only 2 gravers used,a small flat for the tree limbs and everything else a 90/120 for the straight lines.I see no bulino techniques,just straight lines.

vikkiwillis · Mar 3, 2015

Andrew Biggs said:
Hi Vikki

The style you want is loosely called bulino.

It is a style that used a series of small lines and dots to build up a scene using many cuts/dots to make dark shadows and less lines/dots to make light areas.

It is one of the simplest forms of engraving that you can get into and the designs can be a simple or as complex as you wish.

You will need a push graver handle. A square graver and a stone to sharpen it on (and a bench grinder to shape the graver) plus something to hold the work securely...........somewhere on this form or youtube, Sam Alfano shows you how to sharpen by hand. You need a very sharp graver

All of that will cost you next to nothing and you will be good to go.........the only other thing you will need is a bit of practice to learn some muscle memory. Because you are only doing very short lines then you should practice cutting very small and shallow cuts. I would advise learning on mild steel as it gives good resistance to the cut and is easy to work with.

So for a few dollars and practice you can get started.

You can buy all this from GRS. If you live outside of the USA you will be able to buy from one of the dealers or from the internet site rio Grande.

Good luck, enjoy the process and have some fun with it

Cheers
Andrew

Thank you do much. What an encouraging response.

vikkiwillis · Mar 3, 2015

DanM said:
The mountain/house scene appears to have only 2 gravers used,a small flat for the tree limbs and everything else a 90/120 for the straight lines.I see no bulino techniques,just straight lines.

Awesome!! Thx Dan! Have you ever used pre sharpened gravers?

Andrew Biggs · Mar 3, 2015

The mountain/house scene appears to have only 2 gravers used,a small flat for the tree limbs and everything else a 90/120 for the straight lines.I see no bulino techniques,just straight lines.

I'm just trying to keep it simple and speaking in loose terms. Otherwise it just confuses the bejeebers out of beginners.

Awesome!! Thx Dan! Have you ever used pre sharpened gravers?

No gravers that I'm aware of are pre sharpened...........And if they were, they would break sooner rather than later. As a beginner, they would break very quickly. Any style of engraving is cutting metal you have to learn to sharpen. That is one part of the deal that you can't escape.

Using bulino style gravers (they are shaped a certain way) can be sharpened with just the face only one you have shaped the graver.........but you have to keep your hand position very low to the work.

Don't be afraid or put off by sharpening. Take your time and expect mistakes as they are just part of the learning curve like any new skill you wish to develop. Start with very simple things and go from there.

You'll be fine, Just get into it

Cheers
Andrew

monk · Mar 4, 2015

vikkiwillis said:
Thank you Monk. It's jewelry I'm making, and yes in silver and copper. By blade I meant the graver. Wrong word. Graver. But Carlos I think has directed me towards the dvd and techniques I will need to study. And I'm excited to practice, just not able to invest a great deal of money. Maybe I should wait until I can. But that day never seems to arrive. I'm going to purchase the dvd for sure. I've watched a few off the you tube videos that engraver has on his channel and that's exactly what I hope to do one day. Thanks again!

ok, a misunderstanding on my part. there's a glossary on the forum that covers the tools and techniques that engravers use. if you ever encounter a word you're not sure of, check it out. i'm as guilty as anyone of not using proper terms as i should. the great thing about the glossary, it standardizes, so everybody knows what is going on. this glossary was compiled by a forum member, c.roger bleile. he's done a great job at doing this.as for your excitement, we all know the feeling. unfortunately it takes time, determination, and commitment to get to your goal. just never give up.
i, we all wish you success.

Question: Which blades would be best for this type work?

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