Critique Request scroll drawing

jkoper

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I have been studying Sam's scroll video (excellent by the way). Shading has been giving me fits. What do you all think, is there any hope LOL. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Jim
 

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SalihKara

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When decided to start engraving I knew nothing,
Keep drawing you will see that you will draw better day by day.
 

monk

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one should always try to catch up with sam. pack yerself a nice big lunch- and just keep up as best you can.whatever you do, just keep doing it. what the hell, it's more fun than bowling, and you can do it right at home.
as for your drawing-- it shows you have picked up some of the design concepts rather nicely. as for shading
( i'll surely take heat here), i never do the shading on paper just the basic design i want. i do the shading, such as it may be, on the fly. i'm not discouraging drawing at all, i just think it may be time better spent on drawing the basics. after all the shading you do on paper, will be most difficult to translate down to the metal. jaho
 

KCSteve

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As Monk said, it's much harder to draw proper shading than to engrave it. I really think it's easier to draw a proper shading line with a chisel point ink pen than with a pencil. Of course, like with engraving you only get one shot at it. ;)

When I draw shading a usually only draw simple shading, and it's really just to note how I want to shade something. When I'm practicing drawing shading what works best (for me) is a 2mm lead in a lead holder, spun in the pointer to a nice, fine point. It's a soft lead so it will actually let you draw a line that goes from fine to thick. You just have to re-point it a lot.

Lee's book / video includes a cool little exercise - draw a basic leaf shape and then see how many different ways you can make it 3D with different shading. You can generally take a basic, simple leaf outline and via shading make it curl in, curl out, curl up and over - maybe more variations just with shading. Toss in an additional line or two and it gets really fun.

But the best way to practice shading is to just take a practice plate and cut it. Work on getting those smoothly growing lines, nicely parallel and going gracefully from white to black.
 

Dani Girl

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Use a sharp pencil, 2B is my favorite. I use clicky pencils, the smaller the better for the shading... you can buy the soft leads for them too.

Draw at whatever size is comfortable for you.

If you were drawing the design to engrave it don't bother with the shading. Draw the backbones, draw the leaves and fold overs... the rest of it is easier engraved than drawn.

If you are drawing for the practice of drawing and understanding the design details, go for it, pack as much detail in as you can. I like to fill the background in with a texta or something because that will make any large or small or irregular background issues stand out. Also makes your design pop out at a glance. Keep a scrap book of your drawings, and other people's engraving/drawing that you like and it will develop and improve with time.

Keep at it.

Danae.
 

Dani Girl

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A couple of drawings.

A few sketches I've done and engravings. You can see the one that's only outlines of scrolls and leaves, that's what I start cutting from. The shading with a little practice just happens without very much thought. Just figure out what you want to be above what and make the shading drop it down or raise it up. All just practice. Thanks for sharing your drawing.
 

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Andrew Biggs

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Hi Jim

Your scrolls are malformed with lumps and bumps........these are the cornerstone of your design work and engraving. Concentrate on getting them as perfect as possible. Look at them from every angle. Don't fill with leaves until correct.

The way your second scroll (on the right) comes off your main scroll is completely wrong. You'll have to go back to the drawing board on that one.

Learn to draw one decent scroll and then fill it with good looking leaves. Once you can do that you can just attach another scroll and so on........It's slightly more complicated than that but that is the gist of it.

Your leaves look as though they need a good watering. They are all droopy and sad looking. They need to be upright, perky and alive following the movement of the scroll. Draw a few acanthus leaves separately to get the hang of it. Ron Smiths book Advanced scroll drawing goes into this in great detail.

Good scroll and leaf shapes make shading easier. Bad scroll and leaf shapes make shading impossible.........So at this stage don't worry about the shading. Leave that till later.........get the basic outlines of scroll and leave right first. Then worry about the shading.

That's the bad news. :)

The good news is that you have started. Just keep practicing, observing and drawing. Learn the difference between good engraving and bad as there is a lot of both out there. Over time you will get the hang of it. Draw till you are sick of drawing........then draw some more.

Cheers
Andrew
 
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Dani Girl

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Hey Andrew, I can see looking at it that there is a problem with the way one scroll comes off the other... but I can't quite put my finger on it, what has he done wrong and what are we really looking for. Is it because they both go right back to where they started from?
 

KCSteve

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Hey Andrew, I can see looking at it that there is a problem with the way one scroll comes off the other... but I can't quite put my finger on it, what has he done wrong and what are we really looking for. Is it because they both go right back to where they started from?

Lee Griffiths (among many others) explains that you should think of the flow of the design as being like cars on the freeway. Every change in direction has to be one that can be taken at full speed, the way highway off-ramps and splits are laid out. I like to think of it as it being right when there is no 'right' choice at an intersection. You should be able to start at the origin of your backbone and trace along the backbones. At each time the backbone splits you should be able to go either way with each choice being the one that's 'obviously' correct.

Your last knife in post #7 shows this. Ok, it's more the leaves spreading off than multiple scrolls but still as you go from right to left you can take any branch as a smooth transition.
 

Andrew Biggs

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Is it because they both go right back to where they started from?

Correct.

You can have multiple backbones stacked on to of one another. But in this case it just looks wrong because of the change in direction. It would have looked better if the secondary scroll came off the main scroll.

Cheers
Andrew
 

Andrew Biggs

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Hi Jim

Don't abandon this particular drawing...........part of the design process is a constant refining of what you have already done. It's all part of the discipline. (Admittedly, on some drawings you do have to abandon simply because they don't work)

So take the drawing you have done and start refining and improving it. You will learn a lot by doing so :)

Cheers
Andrew
 

Andrew Biggs

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Yes, much better.

There are a couple of things to look for. As you can see,they are very small alterations but make a big difference. Sometimes, when filling with leaves these become obvious and you have to readjust your scroll accordingly. Follow your intuition. If it doesn't look quite right.......then it isn't :)

One of the very best ways I've heard a scroll described is by Rex Pedersen.........imagine standing on top of a spiral staircase and looking down. That is the effect you are after for this particular type of scroll

Cheers
Andrew
 

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Eric Olson

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The book Advance Drawing of Scrolls by Ron Smith is also a great resource that takes you from the single line to the shaded design, and also covers a few different styles and shading techniques.
 
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