Clean lines, Depth of lines and Intaglio

grumpyphil

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Sep 18, 2011
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Hi All-
Been reading here now for some years and practicing practicing. I've been cutting and pondering depth of cut now for some time and wondering how one should judge that depth. I've made my share of unintended skips, scratches and gouges and have some understanding how even the slightest of them can take hours and more to make disappear. So my first question is how do you decide how deep to cut? On a nice smoothed but not polished piece of steel I've made cuts with only the weight of my Classic handpiece with lines so close to another you could not see them individually without high magnification that work perfectly for fine shading. I've also made lines as deep as I could with a 120 graver and they look good too but are obviously a lot more work. I guess what I'm trying to find is some middle ground, some average to work above and below and I'm not really sure how to quantify that.
This leads me to my second question. I'm working entirely in steel but experimenting with many different types. This may have to do with my technique or lack of it. I've noticed that no matter the particular material and even though I'm getting a nice clean chip, there is a slight "ripping" on both sides at the top of the furrow that is created by the graver. I can only see this at fairly high magnification but a little rub with and ultra fine abrasive gets rid of it and really has the effect of clarifying the cuts even to the unaided eye. Is this normal or is my technique faulty in some way? I have absolutely no doubt about the sharpness of my gravers. Sharp and polished they are.
My last question is about Intaglio. I realize most of you here are more interested in gun, knife and jewelry engraving but I'm interested in engraving for print making. I want to cut plates in steel for this purpose but I've been able to find very little information about this.What I have found has been very specific to banknote type work and not really applicable. If anyone knows of any resources regarding this, I'd appreciate being pointed to it.
Thanks for your help and sorry for being so long-winded.
 

monk

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as far as how you can quantify the depth of engraving, i have never figured that out. if the cut depth is based on the design you're doing, combined with the effect you seek in that design, the depth will be correct when all fits neatly in place-- at least "visually" in place. no book or video will take you there-- only practice. don't fuss too much if something looks crappy under the scope. just assure it looks good to the human eye.
 

ETHELBERT

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I think that too much magnification will give you fits. Too much of a good thing isn't always best. Under great magnification any cut will look jagged. If you continue to allow yourself to propell in this direction you may need to make good use of just enough magnification, in other words if it looks good at low magnification it probably will work for the general on looker.
 

Donny

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This very question bothered me for the first 6 months when I first started learning. Someone suggested on here to go to a gun show and look at all the engraved guns there. So I went but there was only two guns there with any nice engraving. Then one day in Cabelas I was in the "Nice Gun" room and got to talking to the salesman. Told him what I was learning and asked if it would be possible to look at one of the highend shotguns up close and personal. When he brought it out he also had a 10x loupe (cheap one) but it opened my eyes to the fact that I was over thinking my line depth and UNDER thinking my rolling of the graver. It also had a game scene (nothing like many of those on here display) but that too gave me insight as to dots NOT being dots.

So in short go look at others work.

Donny
 

GTJC460

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My suggestion is get your hands on master engraved work. Whether that's the actual engraving or castings of top work.

All engravers work differently. For instance the master colt engravers of the 1950's-1980's period cut deep wide beveled outline cuts. The work had very 3d life and dimension to it. In my opinion some of the best colt engraving occurred during this period.

Many of the work I'm seeing today is extremely fine and without profuse shading doesn't have the life to it. It's stylistically different.

My point is you need to work out for yourself what you like to do and what customers are willing to have you engrave. There's no right or wrong when executed extremely well.
 

SamW

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Good advice above. I did many years ago make a sharp point for a dial indicator and measured the depth of my cuts on a piece. Most of the deepest lines and background were in the range of .004 to .005" with shading somewhat shallower. Most of the sculpted work I do today is 2 or 3 times that depth but flat cut scroll remains in the .005" depth range.

In '12 I attended Lovenberg's GM class and the project piece, as he cut it, went to about .060" for the deep background. I managed to get down about .040" on my piece and that is much closer to China than I care to get with pick and shovel!

Pick what appeals to you and work to perfect it. Once you get good at that branching out is much easier. This approach will likely keep you at it longer and more often than bouncing around trying to learn it all at once.
 

jerrywh

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I measure the depth of cuts when I need to with a wire or a hair. A hair is normally about .0025 thick. I also keep two pieces of wire for gauges. One is .010 and the other is .005. I take a piece of wire the size I want and place a piece of masking tape on it for a handle. These are laying on or around my bench all the time for measuring the depth of cavities or anything else I want to check out.
 

grumpyphil

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Sep 18, 2011
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Thank you all for your insights, advise and opinions. It was all VERY helpful. I think I had become confused reading too much and watching videos and so on. You all managed to clarify some stuff and get me back on track. Thanks again for the input!
 

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