Observations of a Newbie

Well today all my gear came and i finally had a chance to hook it all up and get things running. I've been waiting for a few weeks for this day, so naturally i was quite excited. I'm very fortunate in that i was able to get a Powerhone W/Dual Angle, GMachAT, and a 901 handpiece.

I thought i'd share a few things i've observed from a beginners standpoint with the hopes that maybe it could spark a discussion that could benefit other new folks.

1. I regret buying several gravers such as the QC round shank ones. They are a ***** to sharpen because there is no index groove or something along those lines that i've noticed that will get me lined up when sharpening. (Am i missing something here? This item: http://www.grstools.com/gravers-burs-and-more/glensteel/glensteel-rff-point-graver.html) Or do i just have to eyeball it? I keep getting an uneven facets on the heel and i know it's because i can't zero out the round shank graver.

2. After watching Sam's sharpening video, i feel i just should have bought a bunch of square gravers and grinded them down to the angles i needed. Do most people just end up using square gravers and shape them to their liking?

3. Positioning Vise. I immediately saw the benefit in buying a positioning vise. I know people have done amazing works for years on a standard vise and oftentimes even less than that. But when looking through a microscope it's fairly frustrating and the interruption is driving me nuts. (And i've just started. ) Are there alternatives to a positioning vise that are cheaper than switching out vises?

4. AM Scopes vs. Leica - I've used a few scopes in my time mostly Leica, the AM Scope SM-4TZ is fairly decent. The optics are good, however there is some Chromatic Aberration, but it's not something that would get in the way of your work. And Leica's have better vertical adjust-ability, but for the price, in my opinion and now after using a bit, seems like a good deal. (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004UBNIMC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1 )

5. Air Compressors - I tried to save money where i could, and the air compressor, while important was somewhere i decided to save a few bucks. (For now.) I ended up with this: http://www.amazon.com/California-Ai...sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=california+tools+6310 I'm used to using huge 100-200 gallon air compressors and i suspected "ultra-quiet" wasn't actually that. After using it a bit, my suspicions were confirmed, this thing is not quiet. At all. It's still quieter than compressors in a mechanics shop sure, but not the "quiet" i had in mind. Luckily i'll be doing all my work in the basement so it's not a big deal for me. Not sure how it measures up to the Val-Air in terms of noise, but i also suspect they are similar in noise level.


Anyhow, i'd appreciate any feedback and maybe if i'm doing things or thinking about things in the wrong way, i'd love to hear it to benefit others as well as myself.

#1. You are missing the adapter that will keep it lined up.

#2. With the adapter there will be no difference between square or round.

#3. The positioning vise needs time to get used to... I've been using one daily for about 12 years now. Had to change to that particular vise because my arm hangs from a sling while I'm engraving. I shift with my left hand now without even thinking. I did some tweaks to the vise, but you are not at the level yet to start messing around with the innards. Put some hours on it and both you and it will loosen up some...

#4. You may eventually outgrow that scope, but as long as it gets you by for now, don't worry about it. Not everyone can drop a grand or two when starting out.

#5. Quiet is relative to the person whose ears are on the receiving end of noise pollution. Some can stand it pretty loud and some can't. My SilAir sits right on the other side of the wall from me and I never hear it cycle. But it's also pricey... The big shop compressor is 40 feet away from my personal shop on the other side of 3 walls. It supplies air for 2 studios and the classroom. Can barely hear it in my shop - if I am paying attention. You can hear it in the classroom where there is only one wall separation.

Make do with what you have right this moment. Get busy and post your first efforts.


Brian

Brian,

Thank you for all the advice!

For #1, do you mean this piece: http://www.grstools.com/graver-accessories/quick-change-holders/003-320-V2.html ?

Well first I'll say I do not feel your questions haven't at least been felt by many. In answer to :

1) Bought a round graver to see the benefit. Threw it away after an hour. (I do not take to change well...let alone stupid change)
2) I buy blank square gravers and sharpen them to the shape I need them. ( I do buy flats though. I like the consistent width when cutting channels for gold inlay)
3) I have a regular ball vise and use a turntable. Just found it a better all around setup for me and the things I do.
4) Started with a AM Scope..basically wasted that money. Wild M3Z was perfection. It died(sad stupid story). Buying a Leica.
5) I too have the 6310. Works very well for me and its as quiet as I thought it would be so I'm not disappointed.

Donny

Yes, that is the adapter you need. Surprised someone didn't mention that you'd be needing that?


Brian

Brian Marshall said:

Yes, that is the adapter you need. Surprised someone didn't mention that you'd be needing that?


Brian

Click to expand...

I have this one already: http://www.grstools.com/tool-sharpening/sharpening-fixtures/003-706.html I have this one but i wonder if it'll even help?

What I mean is, even if i had this linked piece, how do i know how to spin it so that when i go to put a 45' face on it, it's actually parallel with the powerhone wheel.

Donny said:

Well first I'll say I do not feel your questions haven't at least been felt by many. In answer to :

1) Bought a round graver to see the benefit. Threw it away after an hour. (I do not take to change well...let alone stupid change)
2) I buy blank square gravers and sharpen them to the shape I need them. ( I do buy flats though. I like the consistent width when cutting channels for gold inlay)
3) I have a regular ball vise and use a turntable. Just found it a better all around setup for me and the things I do.
4) Started with a AM Scope..basically wasted that money. Wild M3Z was perfection. It died(sad stupid story). Buying a Leica.
5) I too have the 6310. Works very well for me and its as quiet as I thought it would be so I'm not disappointed.

Donny

Click to expand...

Thank you for the reply...

#3, which turntable do you have? Can you link?
#4, i'm surprised. Was optical quality or some other issue?

MrBrendan said:

I have this one already: http://www.grstools.com/tool-sharpening/sharpening-fixtures/003-706.html I have this one but i wonder if it'll even help?

What I mean is, even if i had this linked piece, how do i know how to spin it so that when i go to put a 45' face on it, it's actually parallel with the powerhone wheel.

Click to expand...

that's the one I have

With the QC adapter you have (the one I prefer too) you must "zero" the graver the very first time by laying the graver on a flat (lets say 45 on a 90 degree graver). I lay the graver on a ceramic wheel, adjust and then TIGHTEN the holder. Then make sure you keep the graver in the QC collet. I have gone almost exclusively to round gravers now as I like the diameters offered.

This is a classic case of buying equipment without knowing how to use it properly and then complaining about it.

The round gravers you have brought are just fine. In fact they are excellent. You just need to get your head around how they work. Like Rex and Sam, I use them all the time and they are a real blessing when shaping them up as you have less material to remove. Especially the 1.8mm C-Max round gravers are a dream to use. Plus the traditional C-Max and Glensteel gravers with round shanks make life a whole lot easier.

The adaptor you have for the dual angle fixture........ is perfect for round gravers, square gravers and traditional gravers. You put one of the adaptors into the jaws of the dual angle fixture and leave it there. You then orientate all your gravers in the QC collets exactly the same way so you have consistency of sharpening...........that is what all these systems are about. Over time you will learn this.

My best advise is to learn to sharpen one graver configuration. Make it a 90 degree one...........use that until you get your head around all of this. Don't start sharpening everything and every angle under the sun. It will not help you in the slightest but rather add further to your confusion. Forget all about 95. 105, 110, 115, 120. 111.23456 etc etc. They are all just personal preferences. Not one of them cuts better than the other or will help you cut better. It is all about control of your eye and hand. Control, control, control, not the width of the graver.

The positioning vise was not the wisest choice but it is what you have brought. It is a beast of a thing...........but if you want real flexibility under a microscope get a GRS turntable. All you have to do is push the vise around on it when you want to reposition your work. It is quick, easy and bullet proof.

You are a beginner..........Instead of being miffed with your equipment........take some time to learn how to use it properly. It is good equipment!!!

Cheers
Andrew

Your round shank gravers are fine and Rex told you how to mount them and use them in the QC adapter that you have. You're good to go.

I'm not a fan of the positioning vise because of its limited travel. But you have it and you'll do fine with it. There are plenty of engravers who use that vise.

I'll give everyone a break and not get on my microscope soap box :::cheers from the crowd:::

Andrew Biggs said:

This is a classic case of buying equipment without knowing how to use it properly and then complaining about it.

The round gravers you have brought are just fine. In fact they are excellent. You just need to get your head around how they work. Like Rex and Sam, I use them all the time and they are a real blessing when shaping them up as you have less material to remove. Especially the 1.8mm C-Max round gravers are a dream to use. Plus the traditional C-Max and Glensteel gravers with round shanks make life a whole lot easier.

The adaptor you have for the dual angle fixture........ is perfect for round gravers, square gravers and traditional gravers. You put one of the adaptors into the jaws of the dual angle fixture and leave it there. You then orientate all your gravers in the QC collets exactly the same way so you have consistency of sharpening...........that is what all these systems are about. Over time you will learn this.

My best advise is to learn to sharpen one graver configuration. Make it a 90 degree one...........use that until you get your head around all of this. Don't start sharpening everything and every angle under the sun. It will not help you in the slightest but rather add further to your confusion. Forget all about 95. 105, 110, 115, 120. 111.23456 etc etc. They are all just personal preferences. Not one of them cuts better than the other or will help you cut better. It is all about control of your eye and hand. Control, control, control, not the width of the graver.

The positioning vise was not the wisest choice but it is what you have brought. It is a beast of a thing...........but if you want real flexibility under a microscope get a GRS turntable. All you have to do is push the vise around on it when you want to reposition your work. It is quick, easy and bullet proof.

You are a beginner..........Instead of being miffed with your equipment........take some time to learn how to use it properly. It is good equipment!!!

Cheers
Andrew

Click to expand...

Andrew, thank you for the advice. I wasn't upset with my equipment. I was asking for a discussion on each of my points to understand it better and potentially help others that start down a similar path. I realized i made a mistake in buying different types of gravers already and i'm sticking to the squares and 90 and 120 and that's it for now.

Thanks for the input.

sam said:

I'll give everyone a break and not get on my microscope soap box :::cheers from the crowd:::

Click to expand...

Thank you for sparing me.

Hi,

New guy here too, I learn slow.

In regards to the microscope, a lot of people use the Otpivisor. You may not need a scope for a long time. Just depends on your vision. I have a used Bausch & Lomb Stereo Zoom 5 that I bought refurbished on Ebay from a guy who rebuilds microscopes.

I will get his name later if it will help you.

Regards,

Matt

Large Air compressors usually have a lot of valve chatter....When I bought my 80 gal 135 psi 10 cu ft, for my machine shop the noise was horrific, so I ran the intake up in the attic and adapted a large filter to it, This dropped the noise to an except-able level.....I then ran a line down to my basement engraving area 100 feet away and I have all the air I need with no noise.....What I am saying is move the compressor away from your quiet area and get your sanity back.....hope this helps Bob

I abused my hearing all my life, including working in a small shop with a horrifically loud air compressor. Now I'm nearly deaf in one ear (coincidentally the one facing that dang compressor) and wear hearing aids in both ears. Do whatever it takes to avoid what I put myself through.

Back when I got my equipment the fine folks at GRS saw pictures of my setup with my little compressor I got from them near my feet and sent me a little muffler they made for me.

Basically it's just a couple of feet of hose and a filter that goes on the port that the closing 'whoosh' comes out of. The compressor running isn't terribly loud - I don't have to turn up my music but I sometimes have to pay a bit more attention. But when it comes to pressure that let-off made me jump every time. Giving it that space to expand into made a huge difference. I'll do some digging and see if I can find that very old thread.

Found a bit about it here - look a few messages down from the top.

Well Sam, I can relate to that, but in my case it was open exhaust motors in race boats that did me in....Now, after it is to late I wear ear protection on any jobs that have noise associated with it to preserve what I have left.......

Bob

I've got a space in the basement, and i keep the compressor in another room. I think if i kept it next to me, i wouldn't be able to work. Maybe i'm overly sensitive to sound or something.

Slowly, but surely...

MrBrendan said:

5. Air Compressors - I tried to save money where i could, and the air compressor, while important was somewhere i decided to save a few bucks. (For now.) I ended up with this: http://www.amazon.com/California-Ai...sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=california+tools+6310 I'm used to using huge 100-200 gallon air compressors and i suspected "ultra-quiet" wasn't actually that. After using it a bit, my suspicions were confirmed, this thing is not quiet. At all. It's still quieter than compressors in a mechanics shop sure, but not the "quiet" i had in mind. Luckily i'll be doing all my work in the basement so it's not a big deal for me. Not sure how it measures up to the Val-Air in terms of noise, but i also suspect they are similar in noise level.

Click to expand...

Check out this post: http://www.engraverscafe.com/showthread.php?12615-compressor-help&p=117511#post117511