lindsay classic palmcontrol or Grs Gravermach AT and why?

Marrinan · Feb 5, 2015

It will take some time and effort to do a through test of which machine will be best for you. I have a Gravermiester, GraverMach without palm control, and the Lindsay Classic without palm control. I am very used to the foot control, I am happy with all my unites . I bought the Lindsay as it was the cheapest package deal. I have always thought it was way overpriced as it is just a hand piece and should come in at the three to five hundred range. The other issue with the Lindsay, with me is Service. When something happens to Steve, do we violate All his patens and pay local machine shops make any parts or changes or manufacture them. The same issues with the Enset, the Lindsay system deal came with sharpening fixtures and stone none of which I use. It will not except the gravers I mounted in quick change holders which sometimes make me want to throw the Lindsay some it. Fred

fegarex · Feb 5, 2015

Ever since Edison and Tesla sorted out that electricity thing around the turn of the century I figured I would use this this as well as an air compressor to run my machine. Since I have a 35 lb vise, microscope, stand and power hone as well I figure I don't really need "portable" power.
But.. for those of you that must have a truly portable, self contained hand graver, both companies make what you need. I have enclosed a picture of the GRS version.

GTJC460 · Feb 5, 2015

Rex...that's my favorite

diandwill · Feb 5, 2015

If I were young enough to be able to engrave with just an optivisor, and wanted to make a living doing Arts and Craft shows, I would opt for the Lindsay. A large selection of goods can be pre-engraved, with space (a banner or cartouche) for personalizing on the spot! Might make a good sales pitch.
As it is, I use a scope, and don't want to lug THAT around, plus what do you do with 50 specialized gravers when travelling? Not to mention the power hone (I would say at shows c-max could be used and with 1/2 doz ready, should make it through 2-3 days). So GRS and a compressor work just fine, for me, and work and work...and have for many years.
That is, to me, one of the basis' for choice. Any system will be the one you like, once you have it and use it. Any system will do any work to the best of your abilities.
As I see it, there are advantages in the flexibility of the GRS sharpening system, to create an infinite number of angles, or to repeat one single angle. Since sharpening will probably determine whether or not you continue to engrave, it should be one of the early decisions. I have not used the Lindsay templates, many do to great effect, and I wasn't successful hand sharpening. A real truism is that the better you can sharpen, with repeatable angles, the better and quicker you will learn to engrave...even H&C and push, even though the angles may be different.
They all are good systems. Figure out how you wish to sharpen, and go with the system that works with that, and where you expect to be doing your main work. Portability, go Lindsay, stationary go GRS or Enset (haven't used it but have heard great things).

SamW · Feb 5, 2015

"Perhaps a professional tuba player could power one if you ran out of..."

Brian, you are humorous!! My Dad and brother both played the tuba but I assure you neither would stand still for such a job!!

I have used most pneumatic hammer products and find they all work wonderfully. The above mentioned time element for your development also includes developing kinship with which ever brand you choose. I believe you will like any of them as you develop that kinship. I currently use a classic which uses very little bench space and is very quiet. They all will cut anything I desire and can dream up.

MrBrendan · Feb 5, 2015

Thank you very much for offering your opinions. Between the power source, sharpening, workholding and graving itself, i see myself spending between $4-6k soon enough. So this is no small decision. I really appreciate everyone coming here and giving alternate angles on what initially seems like a black/white issue, when indeed, like life, it's mostly a bunch of grey.

atexascowboy2011 · Feb 5, 2015

You're right about it NOT being a small decision.
Your 4-6k is just a down payment ! :shock:

KCSteve · Feb 5, 2015

The key to 'alternate' air sources is that you need a certain volume of air to work for a period of time. You need a larger volume with the GRS than with the Lindsay. You could use a foot pumped setup with either system but you'll need some patience in order to fill up a large enough reservoir of air at sufficient pressure to work for a while. My compressor is the small one from GRS and I made it's life a lot easier by putting one of those portable 10-gallon tanks in line with it. It runs longer when it runs, but it runs much less often.

dlilazteca · Feb 5, 2015

atexascowboy2011 said:
You're right about it NOT being a small decision.
Your 4-6k is just a down payment !

You are so right, photography equipment, (lessons if needed), Photoshop, Illustrator, practice plates, scribe, burnisher, compatible printer, and on and on and on...

silvermon · Feb 5, 2015

On the question of CO2, the Lindsey is better because it controls the bleed air better, but the Enset maybe be better yet on that one point because it doesn't use any bleed air.

Brian Marshall · Feb 5, 2015

Never tried to run an Enset on CO2... but now I think I will go out to the classroom and test that out! Could be interesting?

It does require more pressure, however... so it may just be a wash?

Brian

Dale Hatfield · Feb 5, 2015

Enset will run on CO2 .
Tira Mitchell runs one at Demos on CO2

Brian Marshall · Feb 5, 2015

But consumption may well be higher because of the pressure that the Enset requires. (You can also run GRS on CO2, if'n yer rich)

I will get around to comparing them side by side. I'm in the middle of 3 jobs at the moment.

Brian

mrthe · Feb 5, 2015

Running an enset with a co2 is possible , but .. worth the pain? you will need electricity all the way , i think use the co2 option is interesting to have a totally portable setup,but if you need elevtricity maybe is not the best or practice choice.

Brian Marshall · Feb 5, 2015

Yup, the electric is a requirement of both GRS & Enset. (Which restricts their portability)

But I am curious as to the volume that the Lindsay & Enset consume running side by side...

Dunno that anyone has ever done that? Could be that it's one of those pieces of trivia that'll never matter anyway?

Brian

Which brings up another question... does anyone on here run GRS or Enset (with a compressor) off solar panels?

Like in a mobile rig - motorhome, van or trailer?

mrthe · Feb 5, 2015

Brian i have all the systems, Lindsay , GRS and Enset, the enset when you don't use the pedal don't consume air like the Lindsay or the GRS but when you use it the consume of air is much more than a Lindsay at the same psi.

Brian Marshall · Feb 5, 2015

Yeah, but have you ever measured it - timed it out on a paint ball cylinder? To get an idea of how much more?

B.

Brian Marshall · Feb 5, 2015

And is there any chart in existence that lists the relative consumption between ALL of them?

(Some of which I'm sure you don't have Paolo...)

Starting with the original GMaxes versus the newer ones. They are well over 30 years old now, but still work just fine. I've got a couple of each.

Of the current hand pieces - Monarch for example, has gotta use less than a 901 or a Magnum, no? The capacity of the chambers in each are different. The springs have different tensions... and there are differing weights of pistons)

The AT with the Airtact handpieces is also gonna be different.

I bet ALL of the GRS handpieces are somewhat different in consumption?

Then there are at least 6 or 8 different models of Lindsay handpieces, 4 or 5 of which are no longer made...

But just to compare the current production Artisan, Classic, and Nitro for example. (and there are 3 different pistons)

And there are at least 2, maybe 3 Enset handpieces in existence. Dave (Silverchip) has one or 2 experimental handpieces... I've seen 'em. (again different piston weights)

Dunno why I'm running off in this direction? It's not like I don't have anything better to be doin'...

I haven't got the time to figure it all out, and it won't matter much in the end for me.

I have a 120 gallon commercial compressor that powers my personal shop, the apprentices shop and the classroom.

Plus a coupla silent compressors... and a commercial bar/restaurant sized CO2 cylinder.

Not gonna run outta pressure for a few days yet anyway

I don't do shows, though I have taught in N & S Cal, Boston, Hawaii, NM and AZ using indivdual CO2 bottles for each Lindsay.

B.

Christian DeCamillis · Feb 5, 2015

The Enset will run on co2 without any problem. I have used it for a couple of shows. I bought a 20 lb tank I used it at two different shows and used about 20 percent of the tank. I don't know how long it would last but quite a while. Tira may have better statistics. I also used a battery for the electricity since there wasn't any at the shows I did. The Enset only uses milliamps to run. I bought two small 12 volt7 amp sealed acid rechargeable and hooked them up in parallel to give me 24 volts which is what the Enset uses. Each battery measures about 3 by 5 inches by 3inches high .They can run the Enset for at least a couple of weeks maybe more before they need recharging assuming you are using everyday all day. If you buy ones with less amps then they are smaller yet ,but will run for less time . If you go with a battery you must hook up the positive. and negative sides correctly or you will fry the board.

So portability for shows isn't a problem with the Enset if that's what you need.

Brian Marshall · Feb 5, 2015

Chris, are there specs for consumption and strokes per minute for the Enset?

If I ever had 'em I've no idea where I might've put 'em?

I wasn't aware that Enset ran off 24V. That does make it easier to move around - using batteries.

Not looked at the electrical since the day it went on the bench out in the classroom.

Are the other handpieces coming out, or still in the experimental stage?

B.

Is there a manual for it online somewhere?

lindsay classic palmcontrol or Grs Gravermach AT and why?

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