Critique request and couple of questions

Dirtdigger

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I bought a pocket knife from Finnish knife factory Marttiini to do "real" engraving on real stuff instead of practise plates. Knife handle is aluminum anodized to dark gray. I have this idea of doing small scroll (little bit like english scroll) to the handle and not blacken the engraved bits, but leave it brigter than the ungraved parts. I have this drawing that i have made and would like to get critique and advice for make it good enough so i would keep the knife even after year has passed(and not take it to carage to use as a hammer or something)
And now to questions i have in my mind.
-Is it a stupid idea to make scrolls just lines without make any "fill" to them. (thought that with reverse coloring it would look good?)
-Is there anything special about engraving anodized aluminum vs. regular aluminum?
-Should i cut the backbone of the design with heavier/thicker line than the rest of the design or use same thickness to all of it?

Thank you for reading!

IMG_4444.jpg
 
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monk

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you may find anodized a bit tough to cut. you will need to use a lube on your graver. the drawing you show-- all the lines are too thick. the same design would look better (my opinion), if the cuts were done much thinner. just doing the spines, with no other details, not a good idea--- unless you really want it that way. nobody can tell you what it is you like. if you like it, do it ! all advice given here is for one to basically adhere to the accepted "norm" that most engravers have adopted as "the way to do things"
go to google images, and type in "logarithmic spirals". you'll find perfect examples of the shape of the spiral. my advice would be to hold off cutting your project. instead, concentrate more on improving your drawing skills. try to avoid the more complex scroll you see here on the forum. best to learn the basic first, and then build on that.
 

monk

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not sure how this got locked. brought to my attention via doc martin
 

dlilazteca

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David has cut some knives in that style, meaning just lines, if you want to try something more serious, meaning not a practice plate by all means have at it its your money do as you please, if you enjoy it why not, Monk is right tho I would look at your design before you do, scroll backbones should not have any elbows or flat areas, if you change that it will be a big improvement, also when a backbone grows from a prior one it should be a smooth transition as if you were exiting an off ramp with your vehicle. i hope this helps. when you mark your outline you can use some dividers to scribe the border line, how you do this can vary, i like to hold my dividers and not move my hand and turn the knife as i go, when item permits. The circular parts around the holes are done later only the flat border area is scribed first, once that is done draw the holes. when you cut the border choose a side and cut to the line either inside or outside the line this will help you cut a straighter line, thats if you can cut straight lines. Im winded said all that in one breath.......
 

Dirtdigger

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Thank you Monk and Dlilazteca!
I really enjoy seeing traditional scrolls you experienced guys are doing and i´m practising my scrolls all the time, but my shading is really far from beeing presentable so i would not like to do them on this knife. I know i could do simpler scrolls without (or with little) shading but i would like this knife not to have big ungraved parts on it, that would be there if i would leave out shading.
I´m definately trying Monks idea on making lines thinner and same time try to improve with the spirals too.
Advice of using devider on the outlining is great! I need to get myself one of those!
I like this design now, but i wasn`t sure if i will after year or two have passed and i have learned more of this art, so it´s good to hear that someone else has done same style engraving before. It makes me think it might not be such a bad idea after all?
This knife isn´t too expensive, but definately not cheap either, so i will make new drawing or two and see if i can improve before decide to go and cut the knife.
 

Dirtdigger

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I did the drawing on Adobe illustrator to get those really thin lines and more even spirals (at least most of them) but kept the overall pattern same. Would you think this to be improvement or is it getting worse?

When i draw something i get blind to my own work and cant see the mistakes from it. Do you ever get this same feeling? Do you have any good advice to get around it?

MTKc1.jpg
 

Roger B

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With my limited experience in design I can only point out the obvious but the two larger central scrolls have distinct elbows and look too round. I will have to leave it up to others to mention other problems if there are any.

Roger
 

thughes

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Dirtdigger, they don't call it hard anodizing for nuthin. The aluminum underneath is WAY soft, and the anodized coating is hard and brittle. You can cut it, but not smoothly, at least I couldn't. It probably didn't look as bad as I thought, but the knife I started on is now in the tool box in the boat. Just sayin!

Todd
 

Dirtdigger

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Thank you Roger B and Thughes!
I will try to smooth out those scrolls to remove unflowing parts.
Maybe i should disassemble the knife and try to engrave on the reverse side first to see if it could be engraved properly through this anodizing. If i find it too hard i could mill away the anodizing and cut the bare aluminum?
 

monk

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what roger said + many of the smaller scrolls come out at too steep of an angle. shown is a quick sketch showing good and bad "growth" from a parent scroll to a smaller size. also the compass may prove to be more useful. the dividers may leave a permanent line behind. the bow compas can be fitted with steel points, drawing leads, and as i show here, a copper pin. way softer than the steel pins.
 

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Dirtdigger

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Thank you Monk!
I think i may have somewhere in the storage my old old compass from school? I have to go dig around.
I found and corrected couple of those mistakes you have said, not sure if i found all?
This is where i´m now.

Mtk2.jpg
 

monk

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something that can help, maybe, get an opaque projector and blow to maybe 5x or so. sometimes a bad spot will jump right out at you. maybe this can help------- pretend the parent scroll is the edge of a circle. start the smaller scroll as a tangent to the big circle then finish out the smaller one. if tangent to start, you'll be starting just about perfectly every time.
 

Dirtdigger

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Thank you Monk!
I need to go dig my storage to get my old data projector (and that compass) to get a large projection of the sketch!
I think i know what you mean. I went through my sketch and tried to fix all parts i could find a smallest fault and allso made the lines even thinner.

Mtk3.jpg
 

tim halloran

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Dirt Digger: I've cut a lot of Anodized motorcycle parts, and if it is plain Anodizing you should not have any problem cutting it. Hard anodizing is only done on parts where , wear is a factor. Such as valve spring retainers in high performance motors. I had the best luck cutting through an Anodized coating with a 120 degree graver and be sure to use a lubricant, as the Aluminum will cold weld to the heels on your tool.
 

Dirtdigger

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Thank you Tim Halloran for your experiences! I will go with 120 degree and will use cutting fluid too.
I hope this knife handle isn´t hard anodizing and i can cut through it?
 

Dirtdigger

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I did really quick drawing with more traditional style scroll. Do you think this style would fit better on this handle or do you think i should go with the first idea?
I know both of them are crappy beginner stuff, but i have decided that i want to engrave this knife for myself to use. I think it would allso be nice to look at it after a while, when i (hopefully) can do better engraving work.

IMG_4446.jpg
 

monk

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many here will not like to see all that background. i'm just the opposite, i would, however, reduce the background a bit on this particular design. i do like this design way better than the others you did. with that much background, you should practice texturing. if you do this one, i wouldn't use a very high contrast for the background. doing so may be a visual distraction that overpowers the engraving. figure and ground should compliment, not compete.
 

Dirtdigger

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Thank you again Monk!
I will do another drawing of this later design and try to narrow down the backgroud.
If i decide to go with this later drawing, i thought about doing textured background, but since this handle is dark grey (similar to this) I thought it might look good just to leave backgroud original color, dark grey? Allthough i´m not sure my idea would work in real life, but thats the thought anyway?
 

Dirtdigger

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Here is another quick drawing. I tried to reduce background on this one like Monk suggested. I allso realised there was scrolls on the plece where there is firstfinger "dent" in the handle, so i changed that part allso.
I would like to hear witch of these three scetches you guys and girls think i should go with?

IMG_4447.jpg
 

Marrinan

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I think that tis is a good effort. I believe you will find a better since of design working with odd number of components. Three, five, seven , even nine. When you use for the human brain wants symmetry. Designs seem to come to a more balanced and harmonious outcome They will appear more pleasing to our since of balance. Fred
 

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