Critique request and couple of questions

Mike Fennell · Feb 1, 2015

You are getting there. I suggest you make the originating scroll, the far left one, a bit larger, and each successive scroll slightly smaller than the preceding scroll, to show a growth progression. The border must be of a consistent thickness throughout, and the scroll backbones should touch the border wherever they pass close to the border.

Redraw the scroll backbones until they have a consistent shape and flow with no flat spots,elbows or kinks. Each scroll should be shaped exactly like the others even if they are of different sizes -- like peas in a pod.

Dirtdigger · Feb 1, 2015

Thank you Marrinan and Mike Fennell!
Marrinan i will try to fit one more scroll to get to 5 on my next drawing to give a try for your suggestion.
I tried to think other ways to start from the left part, but since there is narrower part in the left i went with this version. IÂ´m not sure how i should make that first scroll so it would be bigger, but fit in itÂ´s narrow place?
I will do another drawing as soon as i have time. I try to incorporate your advice in it as much as possible.

edit:
I have not payed much attention to my border on these drawings cause iÂ´m going to try this idea of using compass on the knife handle to get even width border all around.

davidshe · Feb 1, 2015

Dirtdigger - I have cut quite a few anodized aluminum knives. Nothing magic but it does require more lubrication and more sharpening than usual. Below is a link to a page on my website that shows quite a few of the Cold Steel Code 4 knives I have cut. There is also a video of one being cut near the top of the page. You have received some excellent advice on getting the drawings cleaned up. My cutting is far from perfect but I do try hard to keep the scroll backbones free of large kinks and elbows. That makes or breaks the design in my opinion. You are on the right track but keep drawing for awhile before you start cutting on knives. Here is the link.... http://dsengraver.com/coldsteel

Dirtdigger · Feb 2, 2015

Thank you Davidshe!
Knifes on your website are awesome and video was very nice!
I agree that all the advice i have received here is really great and it will make it so much easier for a beginner like me to get my engraving a good start. I will do another drawing when i have time and try to put all the good advice to use on it!
I hope that someday i can make half as nice engraving as yours!

Dirtdigger · Feb 5, 2015

I have been drawing a bit more. I realised that it would be much easier to draw this design if i largen the outline of the knife before drawing the actual design. I allso remembered that for some time ago i have saved the scroll backbone "models" to my coumputer and i used them to make my scrolls better. I think in this version i have best scrolls of the all the versions i have made, but i donÂ´t like how this design start from the middle so i have to make yet another one.
I have tried to use as much your advice as i could, but it seems i cant fit 5 or 3 scrolls so that they would allmost touch the edges so iÂ´m a bit stuck with these 4, or i have to narrow them a little to fit one more in there.
Again all feedback and advice is very wellcome and much appreciated!

Eugene Carkoski · Feb 6, 2015

That's a pretty nice fill for the area ,Maybe it had some tendrils to fill in the open spots

davidshe · Feb 6, 2015

Your scrolls look much better. When you draw, you might also include the outline of the entire knife. It will give you more perspective as you draw. I assume those outlines showing are the border lines. Sometimes it takes me 5 or 10 times to get the scroll backbones to flow right. Don't start anything else until you are happy with that.

Jan Hendrik · Feb 7, 2015

Your designs keep improving! Keep it up! Your starting point on the latest design looks wrong coming out perpendicular from the edge of the border. Also the leaves can be a bit bigger to be in balance with the size of the tendrils. Some of the tendrils can be made smaller also. Try to keep a balance in the size of the negative space in your design to prevent certain areas from looking "heavy".

Dirtdigger · Feb 7, 2015

Thank you again guys for all the advise!
I have been drawing a few versions more, but they are worse than the ones before, so i keep on drawing. I will post a picture when i think i have something that i think is improvement.
I think i will try to use Mike Fennells advice on doing each scroll smaller than the one before, lets see how it goes?

Dirtdigger · Feb 7, 2015

Here is latest drawing. IÂ´m still not happy with the start part of the scroll on the very left. I have tried to do different things on that part, but havent got anything i think would look good.
I think that Mike Fennells advice on making the scrolls smaller than the previous is great!

Edit
Those borderlines are just for reference and on the actual engraving on the knife i plan on using calipers to make them even width.

Jan Hendrik · Feb 8, 2015

This design looks better than the previous one. I agree with the starting point an the left. Your negative spaces are quite big. If you decide to cut it in the end, I suggest you don't remove the large background areas as this will take a huge amount of time to do neatly. The shape on some of the tendrils need a little refinement. Keep it up, you are making progress!

Dirtdigger · Feb 9, 2015

Thank you Jan Hendrik!
I think i will go with this last drawing after i have cleaned it a bit and i allso try to get this left part to look better.
IÂ´m planning not to do any backgroud removal since this knife handle has nice gray anodizing that i think would look good as a "background".

Dawid Steyn · Feb 10, 2015

Thanks for posting.
All us newby's has learned alot from this post. Your design has improved wonderfully and so will ours. Thank you to all and all the advice.
Much appreciated

Dirtdigger · Feb 16, 2015

I finally got to really engraving on this drawing, although on the practice piece first. I found some anodized aluminum on my junk pile and tried to engrave on that. It engraved good, but i need more practice runs before going on the knife. My shading is really poor so iÂ´m a bit scared to make any and try to make as few of them as i can, but it think that looks crappy allso. My lines are uneven too and need practice. I should of cut an inch a day (like someone has said in here before) even when i was drawing my designs.
Never thought of making a masterpiece since itÂ´s my first one on anything "real", but dont want it to be this bad.
Back to the practice...

Edit: Forgot to mention that the right side end is missing because of trasfer went bad. It will be fixed on the next one.

simone-cervellati · Feb 16, 2015

Just my 2 cents (and I don't do much scrolls so take them with a grain of salt), your backbones are too thick IMHO, and I would go with either 3 or 5 elements (I see you have 5 scrolls in the drawing you posted but the small one on the right is definitely too small and clashes with the others). Having the scrolls start abruptly from the far left is not helping you either, it gives too much direction to the design since the scrolls all flow in the same direction, if you want to have them getting increasingly smaller you should leave a lot of background to balance the taper (am I making sense here?maybe somebody else can chime in). that said, you have improved a lot since the first drawing, keep going until the design is perfect, THEN get to cutting. It is something I wish I knew when I started.. the elements are there, you just need to refine them, taking special consideration to the overall flow and balance of the design, keep the knife close and look at it often. Another trick is looking at a mirrored image of the design, it will trick your brain into thinking this is something new, and you can assess it better that way.

Keep this up!

Simone

Andrew Biggs · Feb 16, 2015

Don’t worry about it. You are doing just fine……….sometimes you can over angst these things. You learn more from your mistakes than anything else.

Yes, your design can be a lot better and yes, the scrolls need improvement………and yes, the cutting is not that good and yes again, your shading will probably be crap.

You are a beginner and that is all to be expected. This is your first real project so it is going to have all of the above. We all started at exactly the same place.

The thing is that you will learn from this. Enjoy the process, self evaluate where you went wrong and then improve on the next design and project. Over time and several hundred hours of drawing and cutting you should improve (well, hopefully you will). Divide your time 50/50 between drawing and cutting as one helps you understand the relationship to the other.

Study, draw, cut, understand, learn, move on, improve……….Study, draw, cut, understand, learn, move on, improve……….Study, draw, cut, understand, learn, move on, improve……….Study, draw, cut, understand, learn, move on, improve……….that’s about it for everything

Cheers
Andrew

Big-Un · Feb 16, 2015

Andrew gave you some very sage advice, as usual. I have trouble with your scrolls starting at right angles from the border. There are very few times that can be used with success, and didyoung is one of the masters at that, but he uses it occasionally. Keep drawing, cutting, critiquing, drawing, drawing and more drawing, then cut some more and study it over and over for areas of improvement. I've been doing that for more than thirty years and every one of my engraving projects gets that same treatment and there are ALWAYS areas that requires improvement. As most engravers here, I'm almost ashamed (actually, really ashamed!) of my early work. You're not doing too bad, and your earnestness in improving and asking the right questions from the right people are encouraging. Keep cutting, you're doing fine for your level of training and experience.

Bill

Dirtdigger · Feb 17, 2015

Thank you Simone, Andrew and Bill!
I aggree that the start part of my design isnÂ´t looking good and now that Simone said it i have to aggree that backbone is too thick too. I have struggled in my mind that should i spent more time and try to make another desing or go with this one. Andrew helped with this decicion a lot, thank you!, i will go with this and try to make my next one better again. Otherwise i could go on and be drawing better and better drawings after another without ever getting in the actual engraving. Ofcourse i am aware not to go and engrave anything to anyone other than myself at this point, but i think i can enjoy my knife even when itÂ´s engraving isnÂ´t the next mona lisa and in the time when i am really embarraced about it i can hopefully engrave myself a better one.

Dirtdigger · Feb 18, 2015

Here it finally is. Could of been A LOT better, but it could of allso be worse.
I want to thank all of you that have given me advice and encouragement in this first real project of mine and i promise i will become better! :thumbsup:

edit: Changed picture for better one-

Andrew Biggs · Feb 18, 2015

Hi Dirtdigger

Why don't you go the whole hog on this thing????........Remove background, stipple and shade. There is a lot to be learned from doing that.

It's fair to say that it will look like a butchers mess at the end of it.........but!!!

You will learn a lot about how the whole process works plus tool control with various tools. You will also start seeing some obvious design flaws.

Then take all of what you have learned and carry it over to the next job. It is the only way you will get better.

Always remember that fortune favours the bold. Being timid with these things will get you nowhere. So dive into the deep end of the pool and go for it.

Cheers
Andrew

PS.......Always finish a job completely . No matter how bad it looks. This is a big part of the learning curve and it is also when you start realising that a big part of engraving is about patience and self discipline.

Critique request and couple of questions

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