Using fill enamel, especially on brass...do you lacquer over it?

AlanGravers

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I am working on brass plaques, but the question arises about whether or not most people are lacquering over their work? I am currently finding that our lacquer causes the gravograph enamel to bubble up...I think because there is thinner mixed into the lacquer. How do you all handle this operation? And also, are you lacquered over non-brass items (i.e. guns, clocks, etc), after they are filled?
 

monk

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when doing such work, i try to determine what will happen to the plaque. will it hang on a wall, or will it be handled a lot ? if a wall hanger, a very light coat of carnuba wax will afford protection. if i did lacquer it, a very light coat of aerosol type "clear coat" ( hair spray or art fixative)) would be in order. the solvents in these 2 sprays are less aggressive than actual lacquer.
your bubbling occurs because the product you're using (lacquer), has thinners in it that are very aggressive on some painted surfaces.
concerning guns, i'd never, ever do one with a pantograph. i might diamond drag a logo or something, but would then hand engrave over the drag marks. as such, the pantograph simply becomes a very expensive layout pencil.
i don't think too many here on the forum would use lacquer on a gun. when you use the term "fill", i also think few here would do filling as a pantograph operator would. you'll see many examples of knife, jewelry, and gun work here. the "fill" as you call it, that we do is to accentuate and create the illusion of depth, where none actually exists. this is usually done in a controlled way to achieve a certain effect.
 

Ron Spokovich

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I might be having the same sort of problem soon, as well. Back in the old days, the car painters had a rule that said EITHER that enamel could be put over lacquer, but not lacquer over enamel. BUT, IT MAY BE THE REVERSE! It's been so many years I don't remember. That may be your bubbling reason. Soon, I have to do a desk display sign, of brass for a young lady photographer, in which simple scrolls will be in the lower right and upper left of the display, with her logo more or less centered thereafter. I plan on three colors, but haven't chosen what material to fill in the engraving with, that will dry sufficiently to allow a coat of Renaissance wax to be applied without lifting. The brass will be unpolished, with a one-direction rub of maybe320 grit, or something that looks good. I'm wondering if those little bottles of paint for the plastic models will adhere sufficiently, and dry adequately, to allow Renaissance to be applied without lifting. Never tried it before, so I wonder if any of you guys have?
 

JOEYS CARVED ART

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I used to race dirt bikes when I was younger and in the winter we would rebuild all of our equipment. When we repainted our frames I ran into this same problem as the lacquer would make the paint bubble. I soon discovered that some companies make paints and lacquers that match up, meaning that you can use the lacquer over the paint safely. I found if we used two different brands they usually clashed. Maybe shop around and find a company that matches their paints and lacquers. What about automotive paints and clear coats. I know some clear coats are as hard as a woodpeckers lips if you are looking for durability and protection.
 
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Dirtdigger

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You could get paint that is usable with clearcoat from carpaint shop. Oil based paints can not be clearcoated with regular clearcoats that includes thinner.
I think i have seen somewhere a clear oilbased "paint" or glue or something that is used in gluing goldleafs. Wonder if that could be used?
 

Kevin Scott

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I have used Mop and Glo acrylic floor finish on copper, brass and bronze plates. A very light coat, applied with a foam pad. Really hard ( almost impossible) to tell there is any coating on the plate. After about 9 months in my shop, no tarnish. Plates without coating have noticeably tarnished in that time.

Advantages are no bubbles, nearly invisible, very easy to apply. And cheap, easy to find and buy if you don't already have any laying around. Dries fast, especially when warmed up a bit with a heat gun. Easy to remove with alcohol. I believe ammonia will also remove it. It is water based, so should not affect your fill. Also it is very durable. Put it on part of a Zippo lighter. After 9 months in my pocket, the chrome with the Mop and Glo has less scratches etc than the non treated parts. Also, the engraved brass cuts have not turned darker like the untreated parts have.

I don't like the look of lacquer on plates, even when it is applied properly. I am sold on the invisible finish of Mop and Glo.
 

zzcutter

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Kevin, Future is my weapon of choice for polished steel that I add paint to enhance the engraving. Thin coat dries fast and super clear and very durable. I use it in the top coat over French grey also. I was wondering when someone else would discover this for engraving.
 

Kevin Scott

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Kevin, Future is my weapon of choice for polished steel that I add paint to enhance the engraving. Thin coat dries fast and super clear and very durable. I use it in the top coat over French grey also. I was wondering when someone else would discover this for engraving.

I guess Future is another brand name for the same formula as Mop and Glo. I think any brand of acrylic floor finish will work just as well as Mop and Glo brand. Even cheap no name off brands.

I also use Mop and Glo after penciling in my work on metal to be engraved. A very light coat, and it cannot be be rubbed off or get blurred while cutting and pivoting with my thumb. You can rub the pencil work with your finger for an hour and it will not effect effect the pencil lines or the the white background. For a white background I use Elmer's or or Sharpnee white markers. Spread out with a thin coat with a foam pad. Mop and Glo and other acrylic finishes will not work with Chinese white since it is water soluble like Mop and Glo. In my opinion Chinese white is worthless. There are much better alternatives.

Love Mop and Glo. No nasty fumes, no spraying. No dust etc or bubbles in finish. Invisible. No heath hazards. Has no effect what so ever when cutting with a graver. If used all the time, for full time engraver, $5.00 worth would last at least five years. Don't know of any downsides, except it will not work with Chinese White, or other water based back ground finishes to draw on.

But do not know how good it it is on guns as a protective coating to prevent wear, tarnish etc., or where heat is involved. That is outside of what I work on. But I suspect it would work very well.

Mop and Glo also gives a beautiful sheen and protective coating to marble, slate, tile etc. It is not just for plastic -vinyl type kitchen floors which it is marketed for.

And no, I do not own any stock in Mop and Glo, or any relating companies.
 

LVVP

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Brian,
I think you are right, however we will wait for Kevin
 

Kevin Scott

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hi kevin..
so mop n glo?
you wash it off with water after are done?
how water soluble is it?

I wash it off with alcohol, same as when removing the paint background. One it dries, I don't think water has much effect on it. Should be fully water soluble when it is still liquid, but I have never tried to dilute it.

I plan on buying a couple gallons of Mop and Glo for about $5 a gallon, re bottling it into 4 ounce bottles, Label it "Engraver's Miracle Sauce" and sell the 4 ounce bottles for $10.00 each. Plus shipping of course.
 

AlanGravers

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Jan 26, 2015
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what are companies like Matthews using for brass plaques? They have a lacquer clearcoat and I never see any bubbling in the enamel
 

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