never engraved - best way to highlight script on blued metal

Big Ed · Jan 9, 2015

I am restoring a custom hunting rifle inherited from my grandfather, who originally built the rifle in 1950. As part of the project, I made a grip cap out of mild steel. I had a local jeweler engrave my grandfather's initials on the cap. After sanding off the bead and rust bluing, the script is very shallow and just barely legible. See below:

I am seeking advice on the best way to make the script more visible. The letters are just over 1/4" tall. I have 3 basic ideas:

1. Use a carbide scribe to scrape out the bluing from the engraved lines, exposing bare metal.

2. Use a hammer and chisel to deepen the script, then fill with gold leaf paint.

3. Fully engrave the lettering and inlay with gold wire.

I have never engraved before, and have no tools. Obviously #3 would be the most challenging, but I find myself thinking how awesome it would look. Are the letters too small for that?

Any and all advice welcome and appreciated. Thanks in advance.

atexascowboy2011 · Jan 10, 2015

I vote # 3 also.

SamW · Jan 10, 2015

I agree with #3. Also clean up the screw heads in the process.

Kevin Scott · Jan 10, 2015

I vote for #3 also.

But I hope you realize it will take well over 200 hours, studying, reading, practicing, making or researching tools, and a couple pounds of practice plates before you are ready to do the job.

Also the lettering that you had done looks pantograph work. Okay as a layout, to go over with a graver. But the layout design really does not work within the oval plate. Think you should come up with a better design. Do it on pencil and paper the size and shape of the plate. And would probably want to make a nice border. And it looks like the plate should be prepped - finished better before engraving, blueing etc, in addition to the screws.

Good news, it can be done with a low cost in tools etc with hammer and chisel.. Depending on how much stuff you make or instead buy. And what you already have that can be used for sharpening gravers etc.

A nice project - goal to start out engraving. Good for drawing and design practice since it is not too complicated. And a flat surface. Curved surfaces really add to problems cutting. Good luck.

Big Ed · Jan 10, 2015

OK, thanks, I'm game to learn. I've looked at a few tutorials on the basic technique of doing an inlay, and I understand I'm going to need to practice for a while to learn the technique. If anyone can suggest details on how to do this particular piece, that would be very helpful. In particular, what size and shape gravers should I use for such small lettering? What order should I use them in?

Kevin Scott · Jan 10, 2015

You say the letters are a little over 1/4'' tall. That is actually a very good size to practice capital script letters. Not too big, not too small.

What size shape gravers? Standard sizes and shapes. Nothing special. Many ways to do it.

Watch Sam Alfano's free Utube video on Hammer and Chisel work for a start. Also his many other great videos.

rmgreen · Jan 10, 2015

As a gunmaker and that you asked. None of the 3 options in my opinion are the right ones to make. 1st the lettering was done on a pantogragh type machine and are not hand engraved. Like Sam W indicated the screws are a dead give away of amateur work. Sam used more politically correct terms. Those screws do not fit the countersink and the slots are for carpenter screw drivers. They need to be discarded. Find screws with a thin slots or make them. When installed make sure the thin slotted (about .030") screw slots are North/South(12:00-6:00 O'clock). They are timed now at 11:30 they must be 12 O'Clock. The eye sees this slight out of alignment easily. It is better to have them at some really odd timing than to have them this close but not right. My recommendation is to polish off the mechanical engraving, either you or some engraver hand engrave the initial or a monogram. If you intend to gold inlay the initial then hot hot blue. This will make the gold really stand out. If not inlaying then rust blue and the engraved cuts will standout. If this is not where you want to go then leave alone. The 3 options given has little possibility of improving the grip cap.

Roger Bleile · Jan 10, 2015

Learning to engrave and gold inlay to do this job is equivalent to going to dental school just to fill a cavity in your wife's tooth.

If you want this done right there are many people on this forum who will do it for a modest fee. On the other hand, if you are dedicated to and passionate about becoming a hand engraver, this is the place to start. Set the grip cap aside for a couple of years and begin the process.

dlilazteca · Jan 10, 2015

Roger Bleile said:
If you want this done right there are many people on this forum who will do it for a modest fee. On the other hand, if you are dedicated to and passionate about becoming a hand engraver, this is the place to start. Set the grip cap aside for a couple of years and begin the process.

couple of years might be cutting it short, for some quality inlay, he might be better off and cheaper to have someone do it for you.

Saludos,
Carlos

Big Ed · Jan 10, 2015

Thanks to all for the advice. Yes, I could have it done, but I've done everything else on the rifle myself, so I'd like to give it a shot. If I botch the job I can easily make another cap and try again. If I don't like the results after a couple tries I can always make a new one and have it done by a pro.

Also, this is a field gun, not a display gun; I shot a deer with it last week after 3 days of walking in the rain. I'm not trying to pass it off as a pro job; I just want something that looks decent and clearly shows my grandfather's initials.

I'd like to do this with minimal investment in tools. The tutorial I watched recommended following the script with a square graver, deepening it with a flat graver, then undercutting with an onglette. What I do not understand is do I use the flat graver on all the lines, or just the space between the parallel lines? The narrowest flat graver I have seen is 0.2mm, which seems wide for letters that size. The parallel lines are about that far apart.

monk · Jan 10, 2015

that just screams "pantograph". unless the engraving, as such, is precious to you, i'd get rid of the machine work and proceed from there. this diamond drag work is very shallow in depth, and easily removed.

Big Ed · Jan 10, 2015

Re the screws, the timing is easy to adjust, since these are machine screws anchored in brass threaded inserts. I may look for replacement screws with proper slots and a tighter fit to the countersink. I've got plenty of time to sort that out while I figure out the engraving.

Big Ed · Jan 10, 2015

I had planned on following the existing script because I figured that would be easier than learning to scribe new letters from scratch. Like I said, I'm not trying to impress professional engravers and gun makers.

Having said that, if new script would produce a result noticeably more appealing to an average viewer who does not even know what a pantograph is, then I'm willing to give it a shot. However, I suck at design/art and I don't want to spend a ton of time researching it. So, if anyone can point me to a template or sample to mimic, please do.

I could also use the existing letters for now, then make a new one in a few years when I am more skilled.

Texasgerd · Jan 10, 2015

Big Ed:

You just got some free advise from some A#1 engravers but some first rate rifle-smiths/gunsmiths to boot.
I just wanted to say big kudos for caring about taking care of a piece of family history and wanting to do it right. Great job and you should be proud.

Dan

Big Ed · Jan 11, 2015

Texasgerd said:
I just wanted to say big kudos for caring about taking care of a piece of family history and wanting to do it right. Great job and you should be proud.

Thanks so much. It has been a year long project, and I feel like I have honored my grandfather by doing it myself. Having never worked on a gun before, I have learned a great deal by doing the following tasks for the first time: checkering, install crossbolts, re-inlet and glass bed action, pillar bed rear tang, float barrel, replace trigger, replace plastic forend tip with ebony, replace plastic grip cap and butt plate with metal pieces that I made myself, reshape cheekpiece, refinish stock, and replace scope/rings/mount.

Most satisfyingly, accuracy improved from 6 MOA to 1 MOA. Here are some pictures for anyone who likes guns. It is a large ring Mauser in .270 Win, originally sporterized by my grandfather in 1950:

monk · Jan 12, 2015

a real pretty gun. i do not advise such, but i can make you a template for panto work-- of most any font you find appealing. the problem, however, still exists-- you still have pantographic work on the cap ! you would then want an engraver to go over that by hand i could do the template and send it to you, or i could do your grip cap start to finish. as for me, i'd simply draw on the cap and hand engrave it.

Dave London · Jan 12, 2015

Big Ed
A real fine rifle, not to degrade your work, but you could get a custom grip cap for less than $40.00. This rifle deserves it look at the butt plate. MTC

Big Ed · Jan 13, 2015

Dave London said:
This rifle deserves it look at the butt plate. MTC

Thanks! I made the butt plate from scratch too. The metal came out nice, but I botched the border on the reveal panel checkering, so that's something I'll have to go back and fix at some point.

I am resolved to try and do this myself, for 3 reasons: 1) I did everything else on the rifle; 2) it is in keeping with my grandfather's spirit/ethos; and 3) it is a chance to learn a new skill.

The grip cap is not an integral part of the gun. I made it from some scrap metal. If I ruin this one with a bad engraving job, I can always make another.

Seems like the general consensus is that pantograph is bad, and I should sand it off, re-draw the lettering, and engrave with hammer and chisel. I watched the Alfano videos and feel I ought to be able to pick up script engraving with some practice. Looks like all I'd need to start experimenting is a square graver, a chisel handle, and a small hammer. My biggest shortcoming is a total lack of artistic and design ability. Any suggestions to jump start me on that?

mtgraver · Jan 13, 2015

Good advice, and fine work on your part I'm sure your grandfather would be proud. If you like the font style on the plate then make a copy to transfer onto the new plate. Keep it as a master, if you will, transfer the image onto the new plate and then try your hand at engraving, didn't work out!, try again. The upside to this method is you will become very efficient and quick to make grip caps, then you might be an engraver to your satisfaction, hehe. Enjoy the journey!
Mark

LVVP · Jan 15, 2015

If you want to see the best contrast, you have to do gold inlay. It is a my opinion.

never engraved - best way to highlight script on blued metal

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