Question: design drawings

So I've been working on drawings and have come to realize how much I suck at drawing organic shapes. Probably due to too many years of trying to get everything square and perfectly concentric. I picked up a book by Ron Smith and a few other things to get started.

When you all sketch for the engraving, do you fully define the design? Or do you generally just sketch center lines and cut until it "feels right"?

I´m a beginner allso and suck at drawing too! (Actually seeing your drawings i don´t think your drawing suck at all to my standards)
I can really recommend this video "The Essential Guide to Drawing Scrolls" from Sam Alfano that you can purchase from this link by clickin to "click here to start shopping"
I purchased this video a short while ago and after seeing it through couple of times i now can understand how those scrolls should flow and how they are "build".
Now i still need to draw A LOT of them to get good at drawing.

Indeed, I didn't saw the light in scroll drawing either until I watched Sam's video, after watching I was able to understand how to put a scroll together.
Even then it's still a long term journey....

I see you try to draw the scrolls in one long stroke. That is difficult, and should be avoided at your stage. Try drawing with short strokes, and focus on the flow of the line, rather than the line itself.

You need to learn to draw what you want to engrave and then learn to cut what you draw. Cutting 'til it feels right leads to a lot of trouble.

Your first concern should be getting a perfect proportional spiral (backbone). Once you get that, then you're ready to add the internal elements. But getting that perfect spiral is essential...actually critical. Without that nothing else will matter. Yours are kind of wonky and need refinement.

But to answer your question, I draw everything exactly as it will be engraved except for the fine shading lines. Those are cut on-the-fly. But drawing the shading lines on paper is good practice for sure. Ron's book is an excellent reference.

There are a few great teaching tools out there.
Videos...books..courses.
the most important is practice
If you are dedicated you are going to improve
hope to see more of your work.
I started out with the same book and over time have built up a small collection of other tools.
shawn

I draw right on the item to be engraved. I draw on the backbones and then cut them, and then I either draw in the leaf elements or cut them on the fly by memory of what they should look like. I shade with the same technique Sam uses.
That being said, I don't really have to do much shading, as most of my work is done in flare cut style, which shades itself due to the cutting technique.
While I see the value to drawing, I find that when I draw a design off of the item to be engraved, I am just wasting my time, as it never seems to fit the area perfectly, and transferring is always a pain.
IMHO

Thanks again guys! And Sam, saying they're "wonky" is the very kind way of putting it, so thank you for being gentle! Truth is, this is kind of an exercise in frustration for me - I can see and scribe differences of 0.010"-0.015" between straight lines (too many years making things straight and square). To draw something like a scroll where the distance between the inside and outside line is constantly decreasing towards the center is simple but amazingly difficult (my hand and eye just want to keep the distance constant). I'll get it, but I just need to retrain my brain a bit.

Largely why I asked about feel is because I'm still trying to gauge how much of this is intuitive vs. technical. When I was making knives and things, I would just rough an outline on the steel with a sharpie and go to work on the grinder until it "felt right". Making anything, including industrial fab and mechanical, has always been a very intuitive process for me.

So this should continue to be fun for a while! Difficult things play to my stubborn streak well hahaha! Thanks to everyone for the responses and the advice - criticisms are always welcome and appreciated!

When I started engraving I only could do it nicely when there was a transfered tiny lined design I could follow under the microscope. Even the shading lines I practiced by design before cutting them.
And now in my experience based on what I have seen over the years, you only can engrave as good as you can draw the design, in fact engraving is just design using a different pencil and canvas.

arnaud

You have been given a lot of good advice. Draw lightly and don't be afraid to make a number of lines. The correct line will reveal itself in time and the rest confirm it. If you are drawing from the outside into the center it sometimes helps to draw roughly 2/3-3/4 of the way and then move to the center and work out until the two lines meet up. I wish I knew how to clip a little of my video and post it here. I think if you saw it done it would be immediately understandable. Good luck and take heart in that you are not alone and all who are now quite accomplished were at your place once upon a time.

when i draw, i usually draw direct on the part. lightly, of course. i usually only draw the main scroll, and "hint lines" where i'll put leaves and such. the internal stuff just happens. i rarely draw details.you end up learning to draw by feel or instinct. when you can draw well without "thinking" too much about what you're doing, you'll know your practice has paid off. i only fuss over the spine. i do think while drawing them. if the spines are right, all else will usually follow suit.

Lee,

thank you very much for advices

Here is a sketch I did in a couple of minutes roughing out what I would engrave

Myself, I'd start engraving with a sketch similar to what's on the paper. Cut the backbones first... I draw on this much detail so that I can have my fold overs going over my backbones and am happy with the shapes and room for leaves and I know what I'm doing. For some engravers that happens in their head... it's starting to for me, a couple of years engraving and I can almost just cut a leaf without drawing it on... that comes with time for most.


Fine line shading always for me just flows on with the graver... maybe draw one line so you have the direction they flow in worked out... but a little practice and you'll just cut those.

If I was to draw only backbones and then cut them I wouldn't be as happy with my work because I like my little leaves flowing over my backbones and making things a little more complex, doesn't have to be confusing or difficult... foldovers are pretty easy to learn with a little drawing practice and they actually make the cutting easier.

Thank you to everyone for the awesome advice! And Danae (hope that's right) The pictures help a lot! Thank you!

Dani Girl, You have Graduated. Congratulations-Fred

Marrinan said:

Dani Girl, You have Graduated. Congratulations-Fred

Click to expand...

Isn't it amazing how fast she is progressing?

Dani - I have to agree with the others - I knew that was your work just looking at the pictures.

I noticed yesterday when I was sketching something that I finally drew a reasonably decent scroll in a smooth line. Didn't like it in context and redid it, but I was surprised by how nice it came out in one go. I do my scrolls in very short segments, partly to avoid wobbles, partly to let me keep adjusting my aim. I often find that get the best control over the widths by working out from the center. And then erasing the outer portions and working back in. And tweaking bits and pieces of the lines. And then, since I often draw right on the metal, letting the graver's natural motion correct as I go.

Normally I'll draw and cut my spines, then draw my leaves and cut them. Shading is done by what I see when I look at the leaf during shading. Sometimes - still rarely - I'll want to do something a bit fancier and will draw the leaves before I cut the spine. That lets me play around with crossings and folds. I don't spend nearly enough time with pencil and paper, just drawing. While I also find it hard to draw exactly for a piece, paper's a lot better and easier a place to play with ideas. Long ago my writing style was to write it out once longhand, then let it edit itself as I typed. I find myself doing something similar with some of my engraving - drawing out a design to get the idea, then seeing it change when I draw it again on the part, and even change a bit more as I cut.

For drawing on the metal I often use modeling clay. Daub the entire surface and it will take a nice pencil line. More importantly for me, I take a small bit of clay and work out a very small point. That way I can erase a line (just brush the point gently across the line).

Interestingly, one of the things that's helping my engraving is the jewelry press I had made for my birthday (there's a thread on it and one on a much better design, both back in late July). With the press I can take a bit of brass and pop out a shape, trim the tab into a hanging hole (where it works out) and have a little something I can engrave. With brass it's so cheap and easy it's nearly free.

To me engraving is all about the magic of the way the metal wants the lines.

Thanks Fred & Haraga.

I really appreciate the encouragement. Who would have thought I'd be actually doing what I'm doing two years ago... not me for sure. It's taken a lot of encouragement for me to keep on going to get to this point.

Thanks guys,

Danae

For the small part I played I am honored to have been of some minor assistance. Your Friend Fred