Hammer & chisel: Rene Delcour > Ken Hunt > Lynton McKenzie

Sam · Dec 4, 2014

I found it really interesting that Ken Hunt learned hammer & chisel engraving from Rene Delcour of Belgium, and Ken taught hammer & chisel to Lynton McKenzie. I assume that prior to that the English engravers used only hand-pushed gravers.

These bits and pieces of engraving history need to be preserved.

Marcus Hunt · Dec 4, 2014

Don't forget my father was a bit of a rebel and brought about a renaissance in English firearms engraving. He used many different techniques including acid etching - stuff which the old school gun engravers would never have dreamt of. I think when they carved guns in the past they used hammer and chisel but dad started using it in the 60's as it gave him extra speed with the larger, foliate varieties of scroll he developed from the continental stuff for the likes of Purdey and H&H.

He liked to push boundaries and experimented with techniques and garnered information from many resources. Nowadays we may see his early work as nothing particularly special, but back in the day what he was doing was revolutionary and that was how he managed to make such a name for himself - nobody else was doing this stuff. And it got Purdey's out of a hole because collectors were buying their guns because of my father's work.

Ed Westerly · Dec 4, 2014

This history is cool to know and so often lost. Thanks for getting it out there.

Roger Bleile · Dec 4, 2014

I had no idea that Ken did not learn H&C from Harry Kell. I knew that much of the English scroll was pushed. McKenzie once told me that engraving on the less expensive Birmingham guns was what he called "punch work." As Lynton described it, one engraver would cut all of the spirals with H&C and another would fill in the inside and outside work with a burin.

When I started, I saw pictures of English engravers cutting shotgun actions with a burin and assumed that that was the pinnacle of engraving. I really struggled with trying to engrave scrollwork with a burin. What I didn't understand was that those old shogun actions were made of very soft steel, almost iron, and that the engraver was working on them before hardening. All of the steel I was practicing on was much harder.

This picture of Harry Kell shows him engraving an action with a burin. Notice he has no vise. he is holding the work against an "engraver's peg."

Sam · Dec 4, 2014

Ken's words: "I taught Lynton hammer & chisel, years after I picked it up from Rene Delcour, Liege"

Marcus: Thanks for your valuable input on this! You certainly are a wealth of historical knowledge on the subject.

Roger: Thanks for your input as well. Great stuff!

JJ Roberts · Dec 4, 2014

I've seen this picture of Mr. Kell before but why working in a suit and apron? J.J.

Andrew Biggs · Dec 4, 2014

but why working in a suit and apron?

Because that is the way tradesmen used to work.

When I did my sign writing apprenticeship all the old master tradesmen wore ties to work and covered themselves in aprons or smocks.......... It's just the way it was.

Cheers
Andrew

Roger Bleile · Dec 4, 2014

In the 1970s I was the head engraver at a company that made award jewelry. I did all of the hand work and the people who worked under me operated pantographs. I wore a tie to work every day to indicate that I had pride in my trade and that I was the senior engraver. I'm old fashioned that way as those who know me can attest...of course sometimes I'm a cowboy.

DakotaDocMartin · Dec 4, 2014

Andrew Biggs said:
Because that is the way tradesmen used to work.

My relatives on my mom's side of the family came over from Germany to farm here in the Red River Valley of the North. They used to wear suits out in the fields for much of the same reasons mentioned here. Pride in their work and pride in their profession.

BKJ · Dec 4, 2014

Not engraving but I remember, and have pictures, of my dad mowing the lawn in his suit pants, white dress shirt and tie but oh my, he did have his sleeves rolled up! So casual he was! :biggrin:

...different times for sure!

monk · Dec 4, 2014

thanks, roger. i'd seen that foto of harry a long time ago-- about when the historic section of the forum was started. i see the peg you mentioned, in his vise. i never heard of such a peg. was that a commonly used tool, or just something mr. kell devised for himself ?

Marrinan · Dec 5, 2014

I wore a suit and tie when I was teaching Shop at high school and college level. After school I took it off and put my street clothes back on before I left school. Greasy Levi's, Buck knife, chained wallet, black tee, boots and my Colors and got on my chopper and went up town to relax. Kids used to wait outside and cheer when I went out of the lot. Fred

Ed Westerly · Dec 5, 2014

Don't you guys wear suits and aprons when you engrave????

Roger Bleile · Dec 5, 2014

I always wear an apron while engraving. I hate getting steel chips embedded in my clothes.

Marrinan · Dec 6, 2014

In one of the histories of engraving and I will defer to Roger for the facts the story is the other way round. I believe that one issue of the Double Gun Journal referred to the fact that gun engraving was a hammer and chisel trade but when sales jumped as the empire expanded it's military presents, many officers wanted sporting guns to take along for leisure activities. Demand for engravers was so great that gun manufactures looked to other trades for craftsmen. Most of these non gun engravers were skill with push skills rather than hammer skills which required the development of different styles of engraving. Things like game scenes and fine English scroll. I believe that this is discussed in "The Art of Gun Engraving" by Claude Gaier and Pietro Sabatti. or as mentioned earlier "The double Gun Journal"

LVVP · Dec 8, 2014

Roger Bleile said:
I always wear an apron while engraving. I hate getting steel chips embedded in my clothes.

Roger,

When I am engraving a gold for somebody I never wear an apron ....

Marcus Hunt · Dec 21, 2014

Roger Bleile said:
I had no idea that Ken did not learn H&C from Harry Kell. I knew that much of the English scroll was pushed. McKenzie once told me that engraving on the less expensive Birmingham guns was what he called "punch work." As Lynton described it, one engraver would cut all of the spirals with H&C and another would fill in the inside and outside work with a burin.

When I started, I saw pictures of English engravers cutting shotgun actions with a burin and assumed that that was the pinnacle of engraving. I really struggled with trying to engrave scrollwork with a burin. What I didn't understand was that those old shogun actions were made of very soft steel, almost iron, and that the engraver was working on them before hardening. All of the steel I was practicing on was much harder.

This picture of Harry Kell shows him engraving an action with a burin. Notice he has no vise. he is holding the work against an "engraver's peg."

Roger, I spoke to my father a couple of days ago and he confirmed that Kell used to carve using just a hand pushed graver and some files. He said it was mainly on small areas and rarely a whole gun.

Hammer & chisel: Rene Delcour > Ken Hunt > Lynton McKenzie

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