Question: Learning basic stonsetting.

Doc Mark

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Learning basic stonesetting.

I know there are a multitude of Forum members who are stonesetters and I want to pick their brains.

First, what books or videos would you recommend for a beginner? Particularly books, I like to have a printed reference at the bench when I'm learning a new skill. Second, are there any basic "kits" that have a good selection of the standard drills and burs used most? I don't plan on making this a business, but I would like to add this skill to my jewelry engraving repertoire. I've watched several videos on You Tube and understand the simplest of concepts on pave but I need to know what tools I need to acquire to do the basics (and maybe a bit beyond the basics.)

I use Rio Grande for most of my supplies, but if you guys know of better sources for tools and stones, please let me know.

Any help will be appreciated.
 
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colinskelly

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Hi mark,

I have been a jeweler/setter for about 20 years. First I would recommend taking a hands on class if possible. The feedback from an experienced setter is priceless.

The burs I use most often are ball burs (.5mm - 2.5mm) for pave/bead setting. Some setters use bud burs for this but I think the ball burs are a little more versatile. 45 or 90 degree hart burs for channel setting and setting burs for bezels. A few cylinder burs (1mm - 3mm) can be helpful when removing large amounts of metal. If cost isn't an issue high speed burs are going to last longer than the vanadium steel.

I'd also recommend getting a bunch of cz's and some brass for practice. Start with round 1st. And avoid anything with a corner(trillion, square, princess cut, etc) until you have more experiance.

Some other good suppliers are Otto Frei, Gesswein, and Stuller.
Good luck
Colin
 

Jan Hendrik

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In my humble opinion: your best option would be to find a stone setter willing to show you the basics before you buy a book. Pave setting can be explained in just a few short hours by a good setter. Learning to do setting well, really well, will take hundreds of hours of practise. With basic tools you can accomplish amazing work as a setter. It is all in the accuracy and in the hands (muscle memory).
For the basic tools I suggest:
Pair of good quality dividers
Vernier caliper
Onglette graver no. 4/0 tungsten or HSS
Onglette graver no.0 tungsten or HSS
Flat graver
10x hand loupe
Ball burrs of the same size as the stones you want to practise setting
Heart burrs of the same size as the stones
Drill bits to make pilot holes
Centre punch
A basic beading tool set with holder
Ring clamp and shellack stick (with shellack of course) to hold your work
A box of plasters

I never learnt from a book, so I can't advise you on what book to get. I do have a star setting tutorial available on the Lindsay engraving lessons site (beginner level pave) and I am busy working on the next pave tutorial (intermediate to advanced level). The tutorial will help to get you started and you should get decent results if you follow the steps.
 

Southern Custom

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In addition to Jan's tool list, I'd add a set of setting burs, some Krauss burs and a few tapered cylinder burs of various sizes. Also an optivisor in a power that works for you. I hate to say it but without some prior stone setting experience, learning from a book is near on impossible. You really need to work with an experienced stone setter as there are too many subtle variables that come into play on any given job. Once you have learned the fundamentals from a class or as an apprentice, you can learn on your own but nothing can replace the experience of learning hands on with good setter.
As for practice, Silver is fairly cheap and one of the easiest to learn on. Very good brass isn't bad but some of it tends to be brittle.
Good luck and go for it!
Layne
 

GTJC460

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Doc, You are pretty talented individual. I don't think you will have a problem learning pave on your own. Check out Alexandre Sidorov's book and some of his youtube videos. I think as talented as you are you will be able to fill in the blanks on your own.

His book isn't going to tell you what spacing or gaps you need between stones, etc...but it will give you a great insight into the process he uses to pave a surface. With a little bit of geometry and math, you should be able to get it figured out on paper first.
 

Gemsetterchris

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Pave.. a practice plate 1mm+ thick copper (or similar) & some smallish round cz`s or spinels around 1.5 - 2mm.

Some ball burrs up to the stone size (2 or 3 sizes) & twist drill for pilot holes (dividers for marking out spacing).

A set of beading tools.

1x flat graver, 1x onglette (or a 90 deg or less graver will do).

That`s about all you need for now, just picture the procedure that you already have an idea of & have a go!
You`ll soon find out those little tweaks that are needed as you go along.

Just start off with 1 stone in a box shape or star & then 2 or 3 in a row ect...it`s abit like learning one scroll & adding to it later.
Try & do all the cutting first & sit the stone(s) lastly, I use the final size burr again twisting by hand just to clean out any burrs ect..

Just a note: you may find a fraction bigger burr than the stone works better eg: 2mm stone you can use a 2.1mm burr ect.

Once you understand the theory of cutting away metal to leave the bits to hold in the stone(s) (beads), then it`s a matter of practice like eveything else.

The trickiest bit is getting the accurate drilling, so the stones are sat snugly at just the right depth & where they need to be.
 
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diandwill

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...and when you push the beads over the stones, start slowly from opposite sides. You want the stone(s) to remain level.
I usually seat the stones then rub a sticky wax over them to hold an to show the tables, but I do my cutting away after the stones are set. Just a different technique, but how I was taught.
 

Gemsetterchris

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...but I do my cutting away after the stones are set. Just a different technique, but how I was taught.

I learnt that way too..only thing is, there are a few things you can't do with that method, but I still use it occasionally for old times sake :)
 

golden forge

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I'm also one of those 20 year jewelers, I would say that there has been some great advice given already, but here is my 2 cents worth.
I would agree that finding a good setter and getting some one on one training from them, if you can, would be (in my humble opinion) the best place to start. There are a lot of techniques and little bench tricks that you develop over time a experienced stone setter can show you that I'm not sure you could get out of a book or video.
A teacher can asses your strengths and also where you might need a bit more help in understanding the how-to, and also what you can and cant do with different stones. Think of it as the difference between those of us trying to teach ourselves engraving,versus going to a class with Sam. ( I still hope to do that some day.)
Also, Taking a class with someone will show you what tool you need at what time in the setting process to make the process go smoothly, there can be enough stress involved when you are setting very costly stones, no need to add more.

Dandwill, I was taught the same technique.
 

Brian Marshall

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Doc, I sent you some suggestions for what you originally asked for - check your email...


One thing I hate to see, and see everyday now because most new setters assume that it's correct - are those squashed flat beads.

The bead is supposed to be as ROUND (ball shaped) as you can get it, not a hemisphere with flashing oozing out the edges.


Try using your hand and the lil' wooden handle that comes with the beading set - not a pneumatic or Foredom hammer handpiece!

Rotate and push gently to start it over the stone, then "circle" the stone with a wrist motion to form a nice round bead that stands up proud of the stone.


Mashed flat beads are ugly and sometimes cover up half of the stone with flashing!


Do a coupla hundred stones with the wood handle 'till you get it down. Then maybe think long and hard about using power assist.

But only after you've learned how they should look when done correctly...





Brian
 
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Haraga.com

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Brian why in the world would anyone use a machine to form the bead? If they don't have the strength to form the bead by hand then their car better have a handicap sticker hanging on the rear view mirror.
 

Brian Marshall

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Because that is how they are taught to do it in the majority of schools and workshops these days.

Mashing 'em takes very little skill.

Dunno who started it, but I've seen it for well over 15 years now.

Originally I saw it mostly done on work from the USA because power assist is prevalent here, but now it's showing up all over the world.


B.


I'd probably mash 'em too - if I had to set black, "coffee", "tea" and pee colored diamonds all day... that stuff used to be drill bit material. Greed rules.
 
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Jan Hendrik

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I would always advise against using power assist to shape beads. You simply don't need that much power/pressure to shape a bead with a beading tool. It is fine to use power assist to do the pre-cutting and bright cutting with gravers.
Doc, I sent you some suggestions for what you originally asked for - check your email...


One thing I hate to see, and see everyday now because most new setters assume that it's correct - are those squashed flat beads.

The bead is supposed to be as ROUND (ball shaped) as you can get it, not a hemisphere with flashing oozing out the edges.


Try using your hand and the lil' wooden handle that comes with the beading set - not a pneumatic or Foredom hammer handpiece!

Rotate and push gently to start it over the stone, then "circle" the stone with a wrist motion to form a nice round bead that stands up proud of the stone.


Mashed flat beads are ugly and sometimes cover up half of the stone with flashing!


Do a coupla hundred stones with the wood handle 'till you get it down. Then maybe think long and hard about using power assist.

But only after you've learned how they should look when done correctly...





Brian
 

Doc Mark

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Thanks for all the info guys! I think the jeweler that I'm doing braclets for will help me get started. that way I can get a handle on the proper equipment I need and can pick up good habits early. Brian, thank you for all the extra help.
 

Gemsetterchris

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Best to learn the "proper" tehniques, corner cutting & shoddy beadwork ect is for mass production on a tight timeframe & budget...no satisfaction in that, but blame the greedy topcats.
You'll end up pleasing at your own expense doing that work well.

For those doing their own work or custom pieces It's a different game.
 

Jan Hendrik

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Best to learn the "proper" tehniques, corner cutting & shoddy beadwork ect is for mass production on a tight timeframe & budget...no satisfaction in that, but blame the greedy topcats.
You'll end up pleasing at your own expense doing that work well.

For those doing their own work or custom pieces It's a different game.

I agree that you should learn the proper way to do things. Irrespective of what other people expect or how they do it (rushed work). I flat out refuse to do shoddy work and I make my price for my work that I feel is fair for the South African market. I have built up a reputation this way that I deliver quality work and my clients come back time after time. Sometimes they give work to other setters to test the waters so to speak, but they always come back.
 

Gemsetterchris

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Sometimes they give work to other setters to test the waters so to speak, but they always come back.

Just had a new customer testing out setters & I now have a pile of stuff to do that really isn`t fun :rolleyes:
All pays though which is the main thing!

Edit: Now they are done :thumbsup:
 
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