DAK4442
Elite Cafe Member
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Help, please: Pricing your Work?
- Thread starter DAK4442
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Doc Mark
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
I have no idea if you low-balled your work but I'm very interested in the replies you receive. I've been asked to do exactly the same thing with a local jeweler and I have no idea on pricing. They want some fairly complicated designs along with more simple ones. I always time all my engraving for others so I'll see what the hourly commitment to each bracelet turns out. Do you have any photos of your bracelets? Would love to see them.
didyoung
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Sounds good.
what do you sell a 1 inch wide bracelet for
this will be a crazy thread.
everyone does it differently annd the range of prices looks like a rollercoaster
what do you sell a 1 inch wide bracelet for
this will be a crazy thread.
everyone does it differently annd the range of prices looks like a rollercoaster
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Marrinan
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Buy a used time clock and log every minute you spend on the project. After you do this for a while you will be able to pretty accurately estimate the time per square inch any/all your styles. Ray Cover had one inch squares made up that he engraved in each of his common styles. kept track of very minute he had in each include design, layout, research cutting, inlaying etc. the added over head for that time. added material cost plus time plush overhead=price per square inch.
Fifty dollars sounds pretty good until you take overhead out. Then your back down to thirty or so.-Fred
Fifty dollars sounds pretty good until you take overhead out. Then your back down to thirty or so.-Fred
TyG
Elite Cafe Member
Ok, I will be the first to put my prices up. I charge $60 an hour for engraving, if I have to draw up a design that a customer has in mind, I charge $40 per hour. I work from our property so overheads are less than having a shop front. I also am a full time Saddler, unfortunately my saddle work does not make the same hourly rate, even though I am taking raw materials and turning it into something functional and artistic, just like the silverwork. Ty
Southern Custom
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Your rate obviously depends on what the market will bear. Next can you live with that price. If not, it's time to find another occupation or just engrave as a hobby.
The next question is the slippery slope of wholesaling engraving. If you sell a bracelet to the store for $200 then she will either double or sometimes triple the price. This is pretty standard in the industry. If you sold the bracelet for what you would normally retail it for, then you have created a problem and a conflict. One way of guarding yourself and the value of your work, is to come up with standardized designs that can be cut quickly. In this way you can differentiate this stock work from your custom work. Personally I keep my jewelry engraving separate from my gun and knife work.
As for setting a price, $50 an hour may be fine where you live. I live in Baton Rouge LA and the cost of living is fairly low here compared to the rest of the country. I know I couldn't live on $50 an hour after my taxes and overhead came out. My shop rate for jewelry work is $60 an hour and I charge more for engraving. Don't ever offer discounts. It cheapens your work and plants doubt as to it's true value in the eyes of collectors. A friend recently told me that our customers look to us to tell them what our work is worth. I think with that comes a responsibility to do the research and to make an honest appraisal of your own work as compared to what is available.
You can also research this topic in a forum search. There's quite a bit out there. Another source is FEGA. A great article on pricing work was written years ago in the Engraver Magazine. Can't remember the author or year/issue but it's worth finding.
Good luck,
Layne
The next question is the slippery slope of wholesaling engraving. If you sell a bracelet to the store for $200 then she will either double or sometimes triple the price. This is pretty standard in the industry. If you sold the bracelet for what you would normally retail it for, then you have created a problem and a conflict. One way of guarding yourself and the value of your work, is to come up with standardized designs that can be cut quickly. In this way you can differentiate this stock work from your custom work. Personally I keep my jewelry engraving separate from my gun and knife work.
As for setting a price, $50 an hour may be fine where you live. I live in Baton Rouge LA and the cost of living is fairly low here compared to the rest of the country. I know I couldn't live on $50 an hour after my taxes and overhead came out. My shop rate for jewelry work is $60 an hour and I charge more for engraving. Don't ever offer discounts. It cheapens your work and plants doubt as to it's true value in the eyes of collectors. A friend recently told me that our customers look to us to tell them what our work is worth. I think with that comes a responsibility to do the research and to make an honest appraisal of your own work as compared to what is available.
You can also research this topic in a forum search. There's quite a bit out there. Another source is FEGA. A great article on pricing work was written years ago in the Engraver Magazine. Can't remember the author or year/issue but it's worth finding.
Good luck,
Layne
Jan Hendrik
Elite Cafe Member
The living costs of the area you live in, the size of your local market and the quality of your work will play the mayor roles in pricing your work.
For comparison, I live in Pretoria, South Africa and wish my customers can pay $50 an hour! My customers squirm when I charge $20 an hour for labour! That is for relief engraving stainless steel bolsters with 24ct gold inlay as well as doing the design. Sometimes I wish I could immigrate to America.
For comparison, I live in Pretoria, South Africa and wish my customers can pay $50 an hour! My customers squirm when I charge $20 an hour for labour! That is for relief engraving stainless steel bolsters with 24ct gold inlay as well as doing the design. Sometimes I wish I could immigrate to America.
Gemsetterchris
Elite Cafe Member
50 $£€ an hour seems to be average for benchwork, providing you don`t actually take a full hour to complete :biggrin:
Your blessed to be able to wholesale a piece of silver for 300.
No chance of that in Europe, I guess people have alot more disposable credit on your side of the pond.
Your blessed to be able to wholesale a piece of silver for 300.
No chance of that in Europe, I guess people have alot more disposable credit on your side of the pond.
Marcus Hunt
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Personally I hate this price per hour. Rarely, I find, does it actually work. Think of all the times you're interrupted by phone calls; I no longer answer the phone in working hours, I let voicemail take it and get back to them if it's important. Think of the times you have to run around doing shipping and admin. You are rarely at your bench 100% of the time. No, I prefer a daily or weekly rate, hourly is just a rough guide.
Work out what you need or would like to earn per week. Divide by 5 or 6. If a bracelet takes you half a day to make and another half day to engrave you've got your price. Don't whatever you do get hung up on what your customer may be charging on top. That's their business, they know what margins or mark up they can make. If you're comfortable with what you're earning leave it at that. Get too greedy and reduce what the shop can make and you've lost a customer. They have overheads too.
Work out what you need or would like to earn per week. Divide by 5 or 6. If a bracelet takes you half a day to make and another half day to engrave you've got your price. Don't whatever you do get hung up on what your customer may be charging on top. That's their business, they know what margins or mark up they can make. If you're comfortable with what you're earning leave it at that. Get too greedy and reduce what the shop can make and you've lost a customer. They have overheads too.
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Southern Custom
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Lately when it comes to engraving, I tell the customer to first come up with a budget, then find some examples of engraving they like and express what their expectations are. I can then see if those two meet. If not, I tell them what I can do with their budget based on what I know I can complete. Occasionally the budget is far larger than the project requires and it always makes customers happy when I tell them this.
One thing I have learned is to give your customer everything you can and a bit more based on their budget. If you accept compensation far exceeding what the job requires simply because they offered it, it will come back to bite you.
I like the line that Marcus is taking but for those of us that do small piecework, an hourly rate is the only way to price some of these kind of jobs.
One thing I have learned is to give your customer everything you can and a bit more based on their budget. If you accept compensation far exceeding what the job requires simply because they offered it, it will come back to bite you.
I like the line that Marcus is taking but for those of us that do small piecework, an hourly rate is the only way to price some of these kind of jobs.
Jan Hendrik
Elite Cafe Member
I find that it is best to start out at very reasonable prices and build your customer base. In time as your skills and speed improve you can gradually increase your prices. The key here is a gradual increase over time to keep your clients and not chase them away with shocking price increases. You will build a loyal following of your work this way that will continue paying dividends up to the point where you want to retire. I have done this with gem setting for the jewellery industry for the past 16 years and I have a continuous stream of setwork. Sometimes enough for two setters!
dogcatcher
Elite Cafe Member
The price should be consistent for similar/like pieces. If you are having a bad day, or your equipment is messing up, that's just business. You should know within a few minutes the time it will take to do a project. The customer shouldn't have to pay for our problems with equipment or personal issues.
I don't engrave for the public, I am a game callmaker, I know how much time it takes for what I make. If a customer calls and says he wants a predator call made out of cocobolo and ABW, it is my duty to give him a price, my price will be based on the cost of my time, the 2 woods used and any extra costs like finish and shipping. If the wood splits on me, it's not the customers problem, if I cut the toneboard incorrectly and have to make another, that's on my dime, not the customer. If I land up getting it finished in less time, that's in my favor.
Reputation also has a lot to do with it, I've been making predator calls for 50 years, I can sell for what I want. A newbie with less than 5 years will be lucky to get 3/4 of my price. I also don't have to make a call, or I can sell it low or give it one away at my discretion. That latter really whizzes in some people's Cheerios, but it is my decision, and I do as I please.
I get asked all the time how to price a call, my comment is usually a reasonable price for your time and the cost of the materials along with a recoup of some of the cost of the equipment. A new person will take 3 or 4 hours to make a duck call, with experience it can be made in less than an hour. The customer wants a price, not a song and dance that it takes 4 hours, a newbies can't charge for the time for his "learning" experience.
I have every callmaking piece of equipment known to man, a lot of it homemade and proprietary to my shop, that I will not share with anyone. It all saves time, I feel I should get paid for that equipment, and so I charge based on what it would take for me using the basics everyone else has.
I don't engrave for the public, I am a game callmaker, I know how much time it takes for what I make. If a customer calls and says he wants a predator call made out of cocobolo and ABW, it is my duty to give him a price, my price will be based on the cost of my time, the 2 woods used and any extra costs like finish and shipping. If the wood splits on me, it's not the customers problem, if I cut the toneboard incorrectly and have to make another, that's on my dime, not the customer. If I land up getting it finished in less time, that's in my favor.
Reputation also has a lot to do with it, I've been making predator calls for 50 years, I can sell for what I want. A newbie with less than 5 years will be lucky to get 3/4 of my price. I also don't have to make a call, or I can sell it low or give it one away at my discretion. That latter really whizzes in some people's Cheerios, but it is my decision, and I do as I please.
I get asked all the time how to price a call, my comment is usually a reasonable price for your time and the cost of the materials along with a recoup of some of the cost of the equipment. A new person will take 3 or 4 hours to make a duck call, with experience it can be made in less than an hour. The customer wants a price, not a song and dance that it takes 4 hours, a newbies can't charge for the time for his "learning" experience.
I have every callmaking piece of equipment known to man, a lot of it homemade and proprietary to my shop, that I will not share with anyone. It all saves time, I feel I should get paid for that equipment, and so I charge based on what it would take for me using the basics everyone else has.
Local toyota specialist mechanics labor runs $80 per hour. I believe a hand engraver should make at least as much as a person that is told what to do by a computer and then turns a wrench to replace a part. And charging less because you have lower expenses seems like leaving money on the table unless you have a lot of competition. We should all be charging what our markets will bear. Charging less cheapens the product for all of us.
Donny
Elite Cafe Member
It would be pretty helpful to see a picture or two of items that anyone has sold with an idea of how much you charged for it...be it guns or jewelry.
Donny
Donny
Haraga.com
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Beatheart it's hard to use the auto dealer as a price comparison as they are usually working in a multimillion dollar facility. Best case, 100$ an hour at the dealer. A third to the mechanic.
diandwill
Elite Cafe Member
The other part of automobile work is that most pricing for jobs comes out of a book. It should take a competent mechanic X number of hours, so the price is Y. If you are a good mechanic, and can work faster, you make more money per hour...if you are slower you make less. Just the way it is.
Donny...a lot of my jewelry work is engraved, and can be seen at http://bockemuehljewelers.com/
I try to time my work. Some I make extra on and some I price a little under. If the price per hour and material mark-up comes to $103.00, I usually will price that down under $100, although sometimes if that just feels too low, I will price it a bit higher. It all just depends. I also should add that the online price includes shipping, so I don't have to add that. It is always a few dollars less in the store, and I can make a deal in the store that I can't make on-line.
Donny...a lot of my jewelry work is engraved, and can be seen at http://bockemuehljewelers.com/
I try to time my work. Some I make extra on and some I price a little under. If the price per hour and material mark-up comes to $103.00, I usually will price that down under $100, although sometimes if that just feels too low, I will price it a bit higher. It all just depends. I also should add that the online price includes shipping, so I don't have to add that. It is always a few dollars less in the store, and I can make a deal in the store that I can't make on-line.
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So if it takes a competent GRS tool mechanic c time to do 75% coverage on an SAA and I can do it in X-5 hrs I should charge X. I get more for my expertise. What I pay per hour to get my car worked on should not be more than what I pay for an average engraver. The overhead does not matter. I pay for value. Unless you believe a decent engravers work is worth less than an oil change or a break job. If you do, there is no reason to argue the point with you.
BTW, if the mechanic opens his own shop with his own tools he doesn't charge less. He makes all the money instead of paying the dealer unless he had a lot of competition. I don't believe any engraver has a lot of competition, there are not enough of us. If an engraver can't demand the hourly price of getting a car repaired they need to look at the quality of their work.
Skilled labor should demand a high price. Skilled labor that is rare should demand a premium price.
You think an oil change at the Ferrari dealership is $30?
BTW, if the mechanic opens his own shop with his own tools he doesn't charge less. He makes all the money instead of paying the dealer unless he had a lot of competition. I don't believe any engraver has a lot of competition, there are not enough of us. If an engraver can't demand the hourly price of getting a car repaired they need to look at the quality of their work.
Skilled labor should demand a high price. Skilled labor that is rare should demand a premium price.
You think an oil change at the Ferrari dealership is $30?
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Gemsetterchris
Elite Cafe Member
You could argue the fact that a mechanic has a more useful occupation & therefore warrants more than an embellisher?
Skill level being irrelevant.
Skill level being irrelevant.
Thierry Duguet
Elite Cafe Member
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2007
- Messages
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I think the problem is different if you sell a final product or if you work only on commission like I do.
1) If you sell a finish product you know more or less how long it took you, how much did the material cost, what is your overhead, add all the cost and ask for a specific price. It seems simple people either buy or they do not.
2) When one work on commission the problem is a little different, you do not sell a finish product, you sell a service, a certain amount of your time at a specific rate. When you go see a mechanic he knows after diagnostic and after looking in their shop-book what is the value in man-hour of the repair, that is what they charge (Yes there is a book for that, ask your mechanic, LOL). When a client come to see me I guess how long it will take to do what they describe and more often than not I am wrong, it always take more time that I expect because I always do more that my client want, not so much because I want to please my client but more because I want to please myself. I think there is a value to me to the pleasure I take at doing something I enjoy, my pleasure, my enjoyment is part of my compensation. Lets be honest, I could not charge $50.00 per hour, most of my jobs take 800 to 1000 hours but I do more or less what I want, I do it as I want, where I want and when I want, that freedom I have and the pleasure I get are of value to me even if it is not green. Work occupy to much of my life to see it only as a way to make money, work must bring some degree of fulfillment some joy and if I have to work a little longer to pay my bills I am willing to pay the price.
1) If you sell a finish product you know more or less how long it took you, how much did the material cost, what is your overhead, add all the cost and ask for a specific price. It seems simple people either buy or they do not.
2) When one work on commission the problem is a little different, you do not sell a finish product, you sell a service, a certain amount of your time at a specific rate. When you go see a mechanic he knows after diagnostic and after looking in their shop-book what is the value in man-hour of the repair, that is what they charge (Yes there is a book for that, ask your mechanic, LOL). When a client come to see me I guess how long it will take to do what they describe and more often than not I am wrong, it always take more time that I expect because I always do more that my client want, not so much because I want to please my client but more because I want to please myself. I think there is a value to me to the pleasure I take at doing something I enjoy, my pleasure, my enjoyment is part of my compensation. Lets be honest, I could not charge $50.00 per hour, most of my jobs take 800 to 1000 hours but I do more or less what I want, I do it as I want, where I want and when I want, that freedom I have and the pleasure I get are of value to me even if it is not green. Work occupy to much of my life to see it only as a way to make money, work must bring some degree of fulfillment some joy and if I have to work a little longer to pay my bills I am willing to pay the price.
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