Engraving Appraisal

Southern Custom

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Looking through gunbroker reminded me of something I'd been meaning to ask about. Does anyone here know of anyone in the country that does appraisal of engraving. Not Firearms per se, as that can be found in a blue book, but appraisal of the engraving on it's own merit or as an added value to the gun.
I'm often amazed at the prices asked and occasionally realized on gunbroker for various grades of engraving good and bad. I've seen what I now know are poorly engraved guns sell for exorbitant prices while some very finely done work doesn't come close to reaching it's true value. It brings up the old question of what is truly good and who is the best person to judge that.
Sometimes I think that an engraver could probably make a pretty fair living cranking out very mediocre work. I know of one engraver who admittedly, and proudly, does just that. When you reach a certain level of artistry, your potential client base becomes limited. I'm sure this conversation has been run around by artisans for centuries but it's only when it started to affect me directly that I really thought about it in depth. What a can of worms.
This may also speak to what stage I'm at in my learning process. I'm sure many engravers here have already hashed this one out.
Layne
 

SamW

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Layne, there seems to be two opposing approaches to gun engraving...you can go at it for the art or for the money. If you go for the art, which is my approach, you won't make much money, at least from an hourly standpoint. If you go for the money, you won't make much if any art. Depends on what kind of customer you want to work for in the long run.

PS...there is a lot of territory in between the two end points mentioned above. Everyone has to find their comfort zone.
 

Southern Custom

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That's an astute way of looking at it. At the moment I'm comfortable somewhere between. I'm not a born artist but I have ideas I would love to execute. I can look at engraving mechanically and architecturally and produce something very pretty. It's the artistic visions that I cannot translate to steel. I am satisfied with the work I do now and yes, the money is good. But I would eventually like to develop my hand enough that can realize some of the more artistic ideas floating in my head.
I laugh to myself when people see what I produce and call me a wonderful artist. I may be a good artisan but I'm no artist! Maybe one of these days. A few more years with a pencil in hand I suppose.
Now you on the other hand Sam, are a fantastic artist!
Layne
 

mrthe

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I haven't never see a man born as Artist.
An Artist from a point of view is a person that choose express his inner world , sensitivity and ideas to others.
Aesthetics is another story , just work hard to find your way to express yourself and to reach others in the best way.
 

monk

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mrthe is right on the money, i feel. i think most everybody has several "seeds" within them. the unfortunate person, is unaware, and thus may never cultivate a single "seed". others may have so many, they cant take proper care of them all.
one could take any example of what we consider to be the finest-- an 'outsider" might take a look and think it's just junk. the reverse is also true.
the value of anything is based on the thoughts of an individual, or a group, as to their feelings about it. thoughts that may take years to develop, may also change in the blink of an eye.
as far as an appraiser that is qualified to judge the value of engraving, there may be many who can say as to the quality and skill shown in a work. but does their opinion hold sway with a person looking at a given oiece of work ?
 

Chujybear

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the appraiser who judges the value of an engraving (the one that counts) is the one who is going to pay for it
 

Terrezar

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The Norwegian violinist Arve Tellefsen once said that a skill is 5% talent, and 95% hard work. The 5% will do little by themselves, but along with the hard work it will create wonders. However, whitout the 5% of talent, the 95% of work will amount to nothing. A true artist is one who has both.

About the question of an appraiser, I agree with Chujybear, as the value of something is usually set by how mutch someone would be willing to pay for it.
 

Marrinan

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At one time I believe R. L. Wilson would have been considered THE expert. I believe his opinion is now suspect at the very least. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I personally have seen guns that were done by some of the best for sale at much less than the original cost. A long gun for example my have wonderful antelope ore elk scenes but south GA does have these animals. I know of one SAA with expertly gold inlay art that was originally listed at $17,000. It is in a local gun shop for $7,000. The same shop had a commutative county lever action 1885 Winchester engraved by an expert with a long history and was instrumental in the careers of several other masters. They were ask $15,000 originally. I have no idea what the engraving cost but the price drooped and drooped I don't know what it finally sold.

Lynton McKenzie, in one of his talks, recommended handguns as spec pieces. He said that long guns are far to personal to recover the cost of engraving on the secondary market.

My daily work is based solely on my customers requests. It is boring and has very little merit. Most of my work deals with the local plantations an is often the same thing repeated 20 to 50 times. I do the best work I can, always strive to learn from everything.It is a living but I have a couple of personal items on the back of the bench waiting for me. I judge myself. Fred
 

SamW

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Layne, if it is I you refer to as an artist let me say this...I do not call myself an artist, or master engraver, I am just a gun engraver. I have over the last 47 years developed a lot of craftsmanship and attention to detail. I don't think anyone can appraise engraving without personal taste and opinion showing and as above, only the customer can actually determine the dollar value.

That being said...if I had to live my life over again the only thing I would change is to charge more!!
 

LVVP

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Layne, if it is I you refer to as an artist let me say this...I do not call myself an artist, or master engraver, I am just a gun engraver. I have over the last 47 years developed a lot of craftsmanship and attention to detail. I don't think anyone can appraise engraving without personal taste and opinion showing and as above, only the customer can actually determine the dollar value.

That being said...if I had to live my life over again the only thing I would change is to charge more!!

Sam,

I agree with you 100%

Are you going to the show in LV?
 

JakeW

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I am in the jewelry industry and run into this question a lot. Customers come in with jewelry and their appraisal and want to sell it to us and they think they are going to get what the appraisal says. Appraisals are for insurance companies for replacement values. So appraisals are not necessarily how much something is worth or how much someone is willing to pay for it. Replacement value and how much something is worth is not usually the same dollar amount. How much something is worth is determined by how much somebody is willing to pay for it. As to the art question, art is to me anything that is created by somebody. That does not mean I will like it or something has value either. There is all sorts of art and people who like different kinds of art. I just love to create all sorts of stuff and I am most fulfilled when I get to do that. I work for a custom jewelry store and I get to create one of a kind jewelry art pieces for a living and get paid a good salary to do it. So I am one of those rare people who get to do what he loves and gets paid for it!
 

Marrinan

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One thing not mentioned so far is engraver reputation. The early work of the masters is not of the same quality as the current or later work and is often over priced based on the name of the engraver.. Also famous engravers were often very prolific or signed the works coming from their shops when they were often not the actual engraver. Just because Nimeski is on the gun, his shop produced over 5000 know pieces and should be priced by rarity rather than his initials being on the gun. Roger could or might be able to identify the real from the shop produced. The legendary Walker Colt held by the same family for more that 150 years lost that intrigue value when it sold outside the family. Other cases of miss priced values include the famous Czar Parker shotgun. It's whole history is rumor but the price paid for it was as if it had been authenticated as if the gun was used to defend the family in their final hours. utter nonsense in my opinion. Lastly there is the case of RL Wilson mis-valuing guns of personal gain, I don't know what engraving is worth on a gun. I know when a guns value has been ruined with poor engraving like many on Gunbroker.

As a buyer of an engraving gun or any other item the value is what I am willing to pay for the item- period. Engraving is like the Thoughtbreed horse business. I have a mare who is an own daughter of Native Charger, Who is a own son of Native Dancer both legends in horse racing world. She sold for $135,000 @ 13 months. I paid $3500 for her at 14 years old as a brood mare. a deprecation ,

Words of wisdom: Always do your best work you can. Always charge the most you can. Do better at both next time.-a mantra to live by.
 

DakotaDocMartin

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Words of wisdom: Always do your best work you can. Always charge the most you can. Do better at both next time.-a mantra to live by.

I think a lot of people under sell themselves. Put a big price on your work and people will want to pay it. People like to tell their friends how much they had to pay for something and it makes an added value in their own minds. There are people out there with a lot of money to spend so don't cut yourself short.
 

tdelewis

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This is something that I have been thinking about and was going to post. The Ideal way to do this would to have people grade engraving much the way that people grade coins. This is most likely impractical as they have to be trained and certified. Engravers are more interested in engraving than collecting. I have noticed, however, that the coverage of Colt engraved guns are given letters by the amount of coverage. I am not sure what that means. Could it be used for other articles as well as guns? That doesn't cover quality of the cutting and design which are far more important than coverage.

When I approach a new project I want to make it the best designed and best executed that I am capable of. I don't think about how much I am going to make. But I'm retired and don't depend on my work for an income. It is enjoyment for me to create. I put a lot of effort in what I do. Regardless of how much coverage there is, and how well it is done, It doesn't come close to those who are professionals and have mastered the art over many years. Also a signed work of art by a well known artist always increases the value as well. I guess the bottom line is that people will pay for what the like.

What does level A, B, C, engraving mean? As it used on Colts?
 
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