I am just getting up to speed with power engraving with my 901 to use for jewelry/stone setting. It seems like the Lindsay templates are the way to go for graver sharpening but I have the Quick Change Collets. The question is how to adapt them to the Lindsay fixture. When I am setting I want to be able to use a diamond bench block and the template to quickly resharpen my gravers. The power hone and dual angle fixture are too ponderous in this situation me thinks.
Question: QC collets with Lindsay templates
- Thread starter quail333
- Start date
Tim Wells
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
You can't. If they are square gravers, just take them out of the collets, sharpen them, then put em' back into the collets. If they are the traditional style graver shapes like what GRS sells with the taller cross section, then you can't adapt them. You'll need a dual angle fixture which is a must have item anyway. Or do it by hand on your bench stone like old school, just takes practice...
dlilazteca
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
I was at that cross road some time ago, I have yet to solve thet one, I've read where people grind down the grs collet to fit into a Lindsay handpiece, never tried it myself, how would that affect the realignment when sharpening with a grs fixture? But you are asking for the opposite. I don't think that is possible. A dual angle is limitless but takes more time than a Lindsay template. I have several templates myself and love them. I have just bought myself a grs machine, so now I'm in the market for an easy graver 105. I do most of my work with the 105.
so now in the few times I need something diffrent I will either a use a Lindsey template or I'm going to have to buy myself a dual angle fixture or use my templates.
You choose
I tell you this from unbiased eyes I personally use the lyndsy classic and my daughter after trying the 901 prefers the 901.
I see advantages to using both, so I decided to own both systems. In other words to have the best of both worlds.
There are times, I found this out yesterday, that there are times a Lindsay template takes to long, I used for a first time yesterday the micro/narrower template to thin out a graver, since I'm now practicing bulino I wanted a thin graver, I know is not necessary I can use other methods to grind down the point, but I was trying it out, I was using a 100 grit disk and it took forever, here I experianced a time where its better to buy a thin graver to start. For example some that grs sells or cenntenial carbide than spending that much time making it thin. Both have advantages and disadvantages, decisions decisions you must make.
Saludos,
Carlos
so now in the few times I need something diffrent I will either a use a Lindsey template or I'm going to have to buy myself a dual angle fixture or use my templates.
You choose
I tell you this from unbiased eyes I personally use the lyndsy classic and my daughter after trying the 901 prefers the 901.
I see advantages to using both, so I decided to own both systems. In other words to have the best of both worlds.
There are times, I found this out yesterday, that there are times a Lindsay template takes to long, I used for a first time yesterday the micro/narrower template to thin out a graver, since I'm now practicing bulino I wanted a thin graver, I know is not necessary I can use other methods to grind down the point, but I was trying it out, I was using a 100 grit disk and it took forever, here I experianced a time where its better to buy a thin graver to start. For example some that grs sells or cenntenial carbide than spending that much time making it thin. Both have advantages and disadvantages, decisions decisions you must make.
Saludos,
Carlos
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i can see where Steve Lindsay, according to Dan Lopacki the world's best engraver, is coming from but I see that Jura sharpening system uses the QC collet. With 38 years as a bench goldsmith power engraving is a revelation. I was sending stuff out for setting, then I was failing at setting my stones and stuck. Now I am doing a DVD crash course in setting, thanks Sam Alfano and Blaine Lewis. Looking at it fresh I want to adopt the best systems. For a newbie Steve's website and engravers seemed intimidating and expensive but I respect the quality, just don't understand it yet. So I got a deal on a Gravermax SC and 901 hand piece and I an in! I am used to sharpening my engraver on an Arkansas stone by hand. So it is business and needs to be efficient, I want it all. Thanks for response, Cheers
The Lindsay system holds everything at a 45% angle relative to the sides of the tool. The GRS system references to 0. So (for instance) when you put a GRS Pre-Cut QC Tool Bit into the Lindsay system the tool addresses the stone at a 45 degree angle instead of sitting flat on the face at 0 degrees. Theoretically, you could address this by boring a new hole and changing the positioning of the reference pin.
The Lindsay alternative would be the OmniGrind Template. It can set any angle, and the math involved begins at 1.5" (there's a chart in the forum). The GRS Pre-Cut QC tool bits are a tad over 1.5" when placed into the Lindsay system. If you don't use the QC pre-cut line, you will need to create a well ground 3/32" square tang to fit into the Lindsay system. If you can consistently hand grind that you definitely won't be challenged by graver geometry!
If you don't want to remove the tool from the collet... The Lindsay system will not take a collet without a significant amount of modification, and IMHO it really doesn't have the "meat" on it for that modification. Then there's the GRS tang (or the Enset ball bearing) to be considered....
Bob
The Lindsay alternative would be the OmniGrind Template. It can set any angle, and the math involved begins at 1.5" (there's a chart in the forum). The GRS Pre-Cut QC tool bits are a tad over 1.5" when placed into the Lindsay system. If you don't use the QC pre-cut line, you will need to create a well ground 3/32" square tang to fit into the Lindsay system. If you can consistently hand grind that you definitely won't be challenged by graver geometry!
If you don't want to remove the tool from the collet... The Lindsay system will not take a collet without a significant amount of modification, and IMHO it really doesn't have the "meat" on it for that modification. Then there's the GRS tang (or the Enset ball bearing) to be considered....
Bob
Southern Custom
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
It takes me only seconds to remove a graver from a QC collet and put it in the Linsay template. A Graver can be touched up in less than one minute and back in the handpiece. It takes so little time that finding a more efficient method never even crossed my mind.
I realize length is important but how about cutting the tang on the QC Locking Adapter down to 3/32" and fitting it into the Lindsay fixture/template. What I want at the workbench is to be able to pull the QC collet out of the hand piece put it into the template, stroke it a couple times on the diamond bench hone, polish on the diamond impregnated leather strip, and then get back to work, easy peasy.
Tim Wells
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Sounds like you are going to use GRS fixturing as what you are wanting to do is not possible with the Lindsay stuff.
Terrezar
Elite Cafe Member
You have three options.
You can use an easygraver fixture
You can get used to the idea of using a dual angle fixture.
Or, you can try to make some sort of hoax that will solve all of your problems.
Let's go with the last one. This is realynot all that hard, but I would say that moust people approache the problem in a complicated way.
It is not the GRS QC-collets that is the problem. They are brilliant as they are. It is the graver holder that needs some fiddeling with.
This is the consept I think will work the best. You will need a lathe to make the jig, but when it is made, you can use it with as many QC-collets as you like, without ruining them in the prosess. Use brass, steel, or something like that, and turn a disk with a pice in the center where you can place the collets. Make the little knob that locks the collets in place by hand, and be carefull when working. On the back side you musst have a threaded rod that fits into the templates. Make a small hole where the hole for the set pinns are, and fasten a small pin in that hole, so that your new fixture fits in the same spot every time you use it with a template.
You can now use the GRS QC-collets with the Lindsay sharpening templates.
There is a few downsides to this method, however. The biggest one beeing the following: Because the QC-holder will slide into the same place each time, the graver will get shorther in time, and the angles of the graver will become steeper. Be sure to adjust the length of your gravers to fit the fixtures' recomended graverlength.
Hopes this can be of some help to you. Do ask if you need more, or just better, explaning. I tend to write a little fast sometimes.
You can use an easygraver fixture
You can get used to the idea of using a dual angle fixture.
Or, you can try to make some sort of hoax that will solve all of your problems.
Let's go with the last one. This is realynot all that hard, but I would say that moust people approache the problem in a complicated way.
It is not the GRS QC-collets that is the problem. They are brilliant as they are. It is the graver holder that needs some fiddeling with.
This is the consept I think will work the best. You will need a lathe to make the jig, but when it is made, you can use it with as many QC-collets as you like, without ruining them in the prosess. Use brass, steel, or something like that, and turn a disk with a pice in the center where you can place the collets. Make the little knob that locks the collets in place by hand, and be carefull when working. On the back side you musst have a threaded rod that fits into the templates. Make a small hole where the hole for the set pinns are, and fasten a small pin in that hole, so that your new fixture fits in the same spot every time you use it with a template.
You can now use the GRS QC-collets with the Lindsay sharpening templates.
There is a few downsides to this method, however. The biggest one beeing the following: Because the QC-holder will slide into the same place each time, the graver will get shorther in time, and the angles of the graver will become steeper. Be sure to adjust the length of your gravers to fit the fixtures' recomended graverlength.
Hopes this can be of some help to you. Do ask if you need more, or just better, explaning. I tend to write a little fast sometimes.
Marrinan
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
This is one of those times when I am glade I have GRS g8 system, Lindsay Classic, Gravermiester, Several different types of manual hand pieces. I have the Dual angle GRS with powerhones, bench stone from Lindsay, A variety of hand stones down to several grits in inch the 6 inch by 1/2 inch square stones of different materials. I am able to adapt to a wide variety of sharpening and hand piece configurations to get the job done. I have several belt grinders to rough out gravers as well. Being a engraving tool junky has vantages. When you have accumulated the amount of options I have you will be better able to solve these types of problems. Fred
Tim Wells
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
That is a nice illustration but it will only work if you can figure the math for the optimal height to the stone VS the length of the graver sticking out. This wheel has been invented already. I'd invest in a dual angle fixture and learn how to use it and how to figure the math for parallel heels if desired based on the available scales on the fixture. Just my opinion of course.
Terrezar from your draw i can see that can't work in this way you have to be able to adjust the graver lenght and with a QC is impossible.
Tim give you a goid advice if is just a question of have a parallel heel , with the dual angle is easy just follow this link:
http://engraverscafe.com/graver_angles/graver_angles.html
Tim give you a goid advice if is just a question of have a parallel heel , with the dual angle is easy just follow this link:
http://engraverscafe.com/graver_angles/graver_angles.html
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dlilazteca
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Triple That won't work, the graver has to extend a specific length out of the lindsay template, unlike grs that would not matter with the eash graver for example
Saludos,
Carlos
Saludos,
Carlos
DHall did the math quite well in this post: http://www.engraverscafe.com/showthread.php?16883-Lindsay-Engraving-System-Math
Bob
Terrezar
Elite Cafe Member
To all the above: I do agree. The post I made was an awnser to the question posed. He stated that he wanted a way to just put the QC-collet into the template, and that is what I have given him. I do state that graver length is going to be a problem, and I would strongly recommend the GRS dual angre fixture, instead of anything like this.
Chujybear
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
I bounce back and forth all the time no sweat.
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