Gold Inlay Hold Down Fixture

tsterling

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I need a little help with something I remember from a while ago - I saw an image of a nicely machined hold down clamp that attached to the jaws of an engraving block, and held inlays steady and in place while punching them in. It had a nice little curved and tapered steel nose thingy that contacted the gold, and a screw that added the hold down pressure.

I want to say it was a post by Mike Dubber, but I may be unfairly accusing him. If so, I apologize for the senior moment, Mike!

Anyway, I’ve used the Search function looking for this, but to no avail, so any of you with better memories than me (that’s most of you!) please let me know if you can remember or find it.

Thanks,

Tom Sterling
 

tsterling

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Hi Brian

I guess I should make my wants clearer - I'd like a picture (or several!) so I can make something like it, and maybe a description of how it attaches to the vise? Sorry another senior moment! They seem to be coming faster and faster these days...

Thanks,

Tom
 

mitch

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Tom- you may be thinking of one Leonard Francolini used for an inlay on a Colt revolver. he posted pics of the process here on the Cafe a few years ago. a quick google search shows his website as www.francolini.com maybe he could advise you?
 

Willem Parel

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You are right Mitch, I remembered this way of clamping when visiting Francolini's site.
It is still there, since he has publiced it on his site I think he wouldn't mind to share it here.
Here the text and the picture of his method.

Without the clamping arrangement the gold would curl up around the area that is being pounded making it impossible to properly affix the gold to the steel.
 

tsterling

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Thanks for the steer to the Francolini web site Mitch and Willem. Those look like very useful clamps.

However, those aren't what I was looking for. I've drawn something like I remember, so maybe if my memory isn't completely messed up, it will strike a spark?

Gold_Inlay_Clamp_Pattern_Scan.3.jpeg

Thanks,

Tom
 

atexascowboy2011

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A simple version which wouldn't infringe on Leonard's holddown jig can be made using spring steel and forming a gooseneck holddown. Terry Theiss of Harper , Texas uses 2 or 3 which fasten into holes that he strategically drilled in his machinist's vise face. The holes in the Magna block will serve the same purpose.
It is based on the old blacksmith holddown.
I'll bet you're thinking of Leonard's holddown that is holding the Capitol (?) on the recoil shield of the "Hartford" SAA. And yes, I would definitely ask permission before building one.
Woodworkers also use the same style which can be located on ebay and the ABANA website.
Or holler at me and I'll draw you out a pattern.
Jeff- thekokopellicowboy@gmail.com
 

tsterling

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I'll bet you're thinking of Leonard's holddown that is holding the Capitol (?) on the recoil shield of the "Hartford" SAA.
Jeff- thekokopellicowboy@gmail.com

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for the reply. Is this the one you mean (taken from http://www.francolini.com, hope he doesn't mind)?



That's not the one I'm thinking of. I'm looking for a general purpose clamp that attaches to the jaws of the vise. Mr Francolini's clamp looks like it is specific to the SAA and attaches to the gun part.

Tom
 

jerrywh

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I don't use a hold down fixture anymore. I have discovered that if you put some good sharp teeth in the bottom of the cavity the gold will stay put but the whole inlay needs to be anchored down at one time or nearly so. I use a flat faced copper punch about 3/8" square with a slightly rounded surface. At first I just hit the inlay hard enough to get it to take the teeth. Then you can go back and work around the edges and sculpture. I have done inlays up to 2" long this way with no trouble whatsoever,
 

monk

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t sterling-- tyvm for the drawing. searched a few days ago ( to no avail) for a hold down for my bench pin. this drawing shows what i need to do. thanks a heap !
 

Bob A

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(Tom wisely quoth): However, those aren't what I was looking for. I've drawn something like I remember, so maybe if my memory isn't completely messed up, it will strike a spark?

View attachment 29548


So, in theory I get it, but how is the body of the clamp held down against the jaws when pressure is applied by the arm against the work? Do the pins expand somehow, wedge into the holes, is it just one piece....? I don't see how the mechanism can exert significant downward pressure without the entire device moving upward out of the holes in the top of the vise... but I'm sure I'm missing something! Thanks, Bob
 

Marrinan

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I have pieces of drill rod of the diameter of the holes in my top plate fixture of my engraving ball (Magna) bent into U shapes in several width sizes. They are cut so that when placed in the hole the other leg just touches the surface of the plate (one leg is about half inch longer that the other). The ends are dressed smooth then a texture added. This is done by taping the ends with a diamond file. They are then hardened into springs. I push the longer end into one of the fixture holes then center the shorter end over the gold by lifting it into position. Holds down very well. Fred
 

tsterling

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Hi Guys,

I guess it's time to update the progress I made on this. Thanks for the suggestions from everyone, they were very helpful.

Fred, they sound like tiny blacksmith anvil hold downs - great idea, just smaller for engraving. I actually used the blacksmith hold down idea as the beginnings of my design.

Brian, I'd love some pictures if you can find the offending objects! Thanks in advance!

Jerrywh, I do cut the little teeth in the bottom of the inlay pocket, but the alloys I've been inlaying lately don't take terribly well to that. I probably shouldn't have called this a "gold" inlay hold down fixture....My latest inlays have been shibuichi (75% copper and 25% silver alloy), something like a hard bronze, only an attractive rosy copper color rather than yellow - it cuts and carves beautifully.

Bob A, the socket cap screw you see on the top of the clamp in the drawing is located forward of the pivot and provides pressure when screwed down.

It all began with this William Henry knife scale:
William_Henry_B10_Longhorn_Beetle_56.jpg

I had trouble holding the shibuichi beetle in place while I carefully and closely scribed around the base to begin cutting the inlay pocket. I managed to get around that problem with a little superglue, but that made a small cleanup problem and didn't solve my 2nd problem of holding the inlay in place in the pocket while I punched around the edges to lock the beetle body into place.

Hence, my dim memory of the hold down fixture which would provide a good, solid hold but not be too much in the way while trying to work around the edges. I've tried c-clamps, but between the twisting and clumsy construction, they were almost impossible to work - and they are so poorly made so nothing works well.

So, here's my version (from memory) and adapted to the materials and tools I had on hand.
Gold_Inlay_Clamp.jpg
Oh, by the way, don't read too much into this highly staged scene. The inlay is just a stooge for purposes of illustration...

The clamp is held on to the jaw of the engraving block with a single screw, so the clamp can be rotated horizontally. So, three degrees of freedom, vertical rotation with the pivot and pressure assembly, horizontal rotation by loosening the single hold down screw, and in/out movement by lengthening the gooseneck hold down.

The strange shape of the clamp base is simply an artifact from a Boeing Surplus aircraft aluminum bar, as is the large hole on the upright portion. You really only need a thick "L" shape for the base.

The pivot and pressure assembly is just a rectangle of stainless steel. The hold down gooseneck is just 1/4 inch diameter brass, forged to a small taper. This gooseneck slides in and out about an inch for greater reach, and is locked in place by the socket head cap screw on the front. The long screw in the back raises and lowers the pivot and pressure assembly, and can generate a surprising amount of pressure. When tight, I can't move the inlay by hand on the surface of the knife scale.

All the screws are 10-32 socket cap screws, so I only need one allen wrench.

Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it!

Tom

PS It has occurred to me that making a second pivot and pressure assembly, along with a longer pivot screw, would allow me to gang two goosenecks together for longer inlays....
 
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Leonardo

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Hi Tom,

I can see that you made a nice one but was wandering if you know about the standard clamps that are used in mechanic to hold almost everything as well as in woodworking and so on.

They are produced in a wide variety of shapes and sizes and also the way they are actuated. Plus they are reasonably priced or even cheap.

I'm attaching a picture and a link to a site that offer many of them.

Here is the link: http://www.stronghandtools.com/goodhand/

Hope this help!
Leonardo
 

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tsterling

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Hi Leonardo,

That looks like it might work. I've seen those before, but forgot about them. However, if I recall correctly, the pressure they provide is only on or off? Zero or 100%?

Maybe if you replaced the hold down screw with a brass version, it might not scratch as badly...

Thanks,

Tom
 

Leonardo

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Tom,

Yes, they have two positions only (on or off) but you can regulate the pressure adjusting the screw.
Also there are different options for the contact head as a rubber pads, nylon, etc.
As long as for the action they even come with a pneumatic cylinders so you might be able to actuate the clamp using a foot control... :)

By the way, I love your scales!

All the best,
Leonardo
 
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Donny

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Is this the fixture you were looking for? I honestly hope it's ok with Mike Dubber that I repost this pic here...

Donny
 

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tsterling

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Eureka, Donny! That's the one - a lot more elegant solution than mine...and Mike is a real gentleman, so I'm pretty sure you're not in trouble.

Where did you find it? And I wonder how it attaches to the block jaws...

Thanks,

Tom
 
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