Question: newbie mistake with knife blade?

metalbender62

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Sep 23, 2013
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Hello All!

First, total newbie engraver here. Loving it, but got a lot of learning and practice to do! :thumbsup:

Here's my issue - was I crazy to say I could engrave this knife blade? I cut a line and my graver tip chips. Sharpen, cut another, chip again. I'll be 100 by the time I'm done. :shock:
I am using the GRS C-Max round blank and dressing them with the 120 degree easy sharpener.

I have been practicing on the square practice plates from GRS and haven't chipped my graver once until now. I have tried shaping a new graver and also using the 105 degree all with the same results - lots of chipping.

I am assuming the blade metal is most of the issue, along with my inexperience.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!
Tom

p.s. also attached the metal content from the Boker website. It's 440C Stainless Steel
 

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leo

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I am not an expert but I think you had to un ail it because the hardness I think is to hard cut with c max that what I am looking at but the design is coming out really nice try getting cobalt steel blanks grs and Steve lindsay Carrie them these is my point of view maybe I am wrong but the Rockwell being at 58 is to strong to cut with c-max
Good luck
 

JJ Roberts

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Tom,We are here to help any new engraver just ask,our goal is keep newie out of trouble.Tune in every day the Cafe is open 24-7.:thumbsup: J.J.
 

Sam

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Personally, I wouldn't engrave blade steel annealed or not. I've regretted it the very few times I've attempted it. YMMV.
 

dlilazteca

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Make sure to dub the point, that helps when im working on stainless steel, stay positive youve learned somthing from this experiance.
 

Marrinan

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Harden blade steel can be done BUT the engraver must be harder than the blade and be tough enough to stand the pressure. Hardness and toughness or flexibility-these are the holy grail of knife making and if you intend to engrave custom knives you must ply your trade before hardening. Problem is there is always much finish work to be done after hardening. So carbine with a numbed point and sharpen and sharpen and sharpen. There are many with more experience than me at this. I hope some will chime in. Etching ins a viable alterative. However for the work you have done-not to damn bad my friend. Be careful what you promise before you try a test cut. Fred
 

metalbender62

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You all rock! Thanks so much for the answers and advice.

I think this will be my one and only blade I try to engrave. I understand the need for annealing, but then you'd have to harden the blade again and I am certainly not a knife maker. I would have had to figure out how to disassemble the knife because of the wood handle too.

@Carlos - another newbie question; what do you mean by " dub the point"?

@Fred - thanks for the kind words!

Back to sharpening on a beautiful Saturday morning.

Tom
 

KCSteve

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I can explain dubbing a point.

Basically it's taking your nice, razor sharp, newly sharpened graver and making it just a tiny bit dull.

Not really, what you're really doing is taking that ever-so-fragile very tip of the point off in a controlled fashion so it doesn't chip off and make you have to re-sharpen.

Here's the description of the method I use, taken straight from whoever it was that posted it here in the Café:

When you're done sharpening, hold your graver pointing straight down at your fine stone and draw a little W about 1/4" high.

Look at the tip of your graver under your scope before and after. The difference is hard to see and impossible to feel but it can make an amazing difference in graver life.
 

Dani Girl

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My meathod for dubbing the point is put a sheet of something under the template if you're using the Lindsay sharpening system so that the graver is on a more upright angle on the top side then rub it around a little bit. Helps a lot. I engrave on hardened blades with rotary diamond points at work when folk want to write script onto them. You can engrave blades before heat treat, I've got a bar of 440-C steel which when heat pressed doesn't get black carbon gunk all over it. If someone wants to make a knife for you to engrave get it before heat treat and that's the best steel.

Hope we've helped a bit. Goodluck, ps... it's looking great.
 

Sam

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I simply do a short freehand sweep the point of the sharpened graver across the ceramic lap to remove a microscope bit of the point. That strengthens the point while not affecting the quality of the cut.
 

art65ab

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58 is too hard don't offer again. I always check the steel before cutting or quoting.

Is this how I answer? I do not do knife blades as all the knife steel (well most) is way too tough for us. The new steels are way up there 58R and more. Don't offer until you have checked steel. ab
 

monk

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i've done many blades which were annealed. they were all miserable to do. i'd only do them now using my laser. cool machine,-- as the beam of coherent light never dulls or chips. look at sam alfanos' reply-- sam can engrave anything-- but he wont do blades. maybe that's a message. why give yourself a headache ? there's lots out there that's relatively easy to do, which can bring in a buck, and you can learn as you go. persevere.
 

metalbender62

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Thanks for the input on how to dub the point. Seems weird to mess with a newly sharpened tip!

This was my first, and last, knife blade! Man, killing me!

Again my thanks to all for your help. This place is great.

Tom
 

Dani Girl

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Sorry to bring back an old thread...

I do engrave knife blades, I work with the knife makers... they send me annealed blades for me to engrave then be hardened, out of 440c, ATS34, 13C26... I'll try more, these are fine.

I have also engraved edge quenched W2 which gets a nice hamon to it and that is (I believe) where the metal is hard, you can see the difference.

1095 broke some chisels.

80crv2 was good

1075 was good.

I can engrave this stuff but struggle with silver and gold. It's a matter of what you're used to or learn to get used to.

Any already made knife has a hardened blade... don't bother chiseling it hardened.
 

tdelewis

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The photography ad in the last "Engraver" has a photo of a beautifully engraved knife with complete coverage. I don't know who did it, perhaps if the person who did it is on the café they could give us some insight.
 

Southern Custom

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Funny you mention struggling with silver and gold Danae. I'm working on an old Single Action army clone that's much softer than anything I normally cut and I was thinking I'd much rather be cutting a stainless Ruger. Gummy castings are not fun. Extremely soft metals are unforgiving of mistakes. You must have good control and a delicate touch. I cut gold and silver every day but you have to switch your mindset when going from stainless to precious metals. Totally different animals!
 

aleks177

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Learning to engrave, but having problems with the high-quality tool and its sharpening, I have tried to use a hard-alloy spoke which are used by sculptors in a molotochny cutter to apply an inscription on granite monuments.
Unique tool.
Yes, it is sharpened only by a diamond disk and anything else, nevertheless it is tungsten carbide.
But he cuts also on the tempered steel of knives, and on the titan of their handles.
 

Jan Hendrik

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I hand engrave my name/logo on all the knives that I make. Always hardened steel of approximately 58 Rockwell hardness. It is not easy at all. Chipping of your graver points is a given at this hardness. Dubbing helps the graver point to last longer, but it will still chip. I have successfully engraved various hardened damascus steels, 12C27, 14C28N and Bohler N690. The trick is not to let the graver slip when the tip chips as this will leave ugly marks on the blade that are very difficult to remove and may destroy the finish on the knife blade. I recently started using Elmax steel, but I think that trying to engrave Elmax at 60 Rockwell hardness is not something I want to try.
 

Riflesmith

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I have more luck engraving hardened steel nin knife blades by throwing aside my EasyGraver sharpening fixture, it puts a parallel heel on the graver which I find doesn't stand up in the hardened steels. I sharpen with an adjustable GRS fixture, but, my workhorse hand piece is a Monarch and when cutting hardened steels SPM are 3300 or greater. Just my experience.
 
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