Question: Does anybody have advice what material is best for castings that will be engraved?

bidilover · Apr 24, 2014

Hi,

I have heard that casted items are difficult to engrave, The thing is that I will be casting plates for rear of phones and ipads and furthermore what makes it even more difficult to engrave is that those castings will be gold plated...

So my question is can anybody recommend that what is the best material for casting those plates so that I will not go wrong at least with the choice of material, I know the gold plating might give troubles with flaking, but I just want to test it out and see how it will work or fail.... many thanks for any input!

atexascowboy2011 · Apr 24, 2014

You got guts!
It is a PITA just to put my factory case back on.
Making a precise mold which allows for minute shrinkage/warpage etc, would be intimidating as Hell.
Not to mention , one drop and it'll probably be tweaked so that it will no longer fit the slots.
Something else to consider, is the heat sink factor in places such as Texico, Loosiana etc. That cast backing may suckup and transfer just enough heat to fry the guts of a very expensive phone.
And, don't forget those backs are flimsy plastic for another reason. So that it will compress and spring back into place once the tabs are in the slots.

Chujybear · Apr 24, 2014

i recarve 22kt..
works pretty nice..
and you don't need to bother plating..
if you're goig to plate, after engraving..
why not, if youre going to cast, cast w the design in?

Brian Marshall · Apr 24, 2014

We have been over all this before... http://www.engraverscafe.com/showth...-ipad-amp-iphone-housings&p=151219#post151219

Simple answer: Casting is the wrong technique to try and use for that product.

Die cut and formed sheet metal is the technique you should be looking at.

Costs for sets of dies are gonna run you 10 grand and up - for EACH model.

And then you gotta do 'em ALL over every time another model hits the market...

That will only give you the blanks to work with.

Polishing and engraving - if they are to be engraved - comes next.

Gold plating would be done last.

Why do you suppose no one has already "cut a fat hog in the *ss" with this very same idea?

It CAN be done. But it will NOT be easy money...

Brian

P.S. What ever happened with the last project? http://www.engraverscafe.com/showth...r-to-engrave-bicycle-lugs&p=125855#post125855

phil · Apr 24, 2014

Yes. To Brian you should listen. Casting will end in tears!

silverchip · Apr 24, 2014

Unless you cast them oversize and use glue to put them on!!

atexascowboy2011 · Apr 24, 2014

So, S.C., give us a clue. :biggrin:

Brian Marshall · Apr 24, 2014

If you follow this kind of thing (ALL types of engraving), you will see that the January edition of the Engravers Journal front cover is devoted to laser engraving cellphone covers...

The "other" one - devoted to the trophy trade - not the FEGA version www.engraversjournal.com

I can see taking the time to make solid gold cellphone covers set with diamonds or other ornamentation. That is a bespoke or one of a kind piece. (unless the guy has 9 wives, in which case it would be a limited edition)

You can make real money doing such a job.

Years ago someone did one that made the cover of the National Jeweler.

Entirely hand made from 14K sheet and set with 20 carats of melee stones as I remember...

Brian

Ron Spokovich · Apr 24, 2014

Brian is correct, in that stamping dies would enter you into the poorhouse. Injection molding is another one you can forget. Sandcasting would arise to inclusions, and sandpockets. We used to tell molders that they succeeded admirably in putting just enough steel into a casting to hold the sand together, which they found no humor in but did have a ring of truth. For the use of steel or some nonferrous metal in your application, it would need to be formed by stamping, and after having been in machining for over 40 years, the best advice I can give someone with little or no money, and to which there may be no financial return, is to forget the creative idea. . .too many pitfalls.

jerrywh · Apr 24, 2014

Sterling silver cast well . What ever you do engrave the plates before gold plating. If you cut through the plating you will probably have flaking. The trick is making the molds and waxes and figuring the shrink rate. The shrink rate is going to be about 7% for waxes and sterling combined. Some people can cast filigree

Brian Marshall · Apr 24, 2014

<Sterling silver cast well . What ever you do engrave the plates before gold plating. If you cut through the plating you will probably have flaking. The trick is making the molds and waxes and figuring the shrink rate. The shrink rate is going to be about 7% for waxes and sterling combined. Some people can cast filigree>

Sorry Jerry, gonna have to differ with you on most of it... (and that shrink rate applies to jewelry size objects like rings or buckle figures, not sheet)

Have you ever tried to cast a 24 or 26 gauge sheet of sterling roughly 2" x 4" - without flaws?

With relatively clean/flat surfaces? No bubbles? No investment streaks? No blown sprues?

In a shape that HAS to be perfectly formed to snap into place? No warpage and no uneven shrinkage?
(Can't even begin to imagine how you'd figure a shrinkage rate on thin sheet that size with compound curved edges?)

I repeat - it is NOT the technique any professional metalsmith would consider for this product!

Brian

Brian Marshall · Apr 24, 2014

And yes, I can (and do) cast filigree. One of our products is/was a sterling spider web ring and earring set. Sold hundreds of them over the years. Still made money with a 15% failure rate.

We are talking about 2+ x 4+ inch x 26 gauge SHEET here. Ain't gonna happen. IF it did, I'll bet you the failure rate would be way over 70%! Closer to 80 -90%...

Where is the profit in that? The cost of those failures is gonna have to be figured into your price one way or another.

Here's a challenge. Find someone to do it.

In fact I'll do it! As long as I get paid EXACTLY the same amount for each failure as success!

It'll wind up costing almost as much as a set of dies, to make special stiff molds, a vacuum chamber wax (or plastic) injector, special flasks -

and I don't know of a jewelry casting rig that can handle that size, so you'll be looking at whatever that's gonna cost - BEFORE I can even give you an accurate failure rate for a second rate/inferior product.

One that will not fit well, will not engrave well and will wind up costing more - because of the rejects - rather than producing a uniform high quality product with the die sets I suggested at the beginning of this thread. With little or no chance of rejects...

Brian

Gemsetterchris · Apr 25, 2014

It's the process that creates a good casting not the material.
You would need a casting company with the latest equipment & knowledge.
I also agree that It's the wrong process for what you want.
Ideally they could be "grown" directly into metal (there are machines that can do that now).
http://www.cooksongold-emanufacturing.com/

Sounds a good idea but expensive & problematic.

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2

bdext002 · Apr 27, 2014

Unfortunately, I'm going to have to agree with everything Brian said. I do everything from wax carving to casting to stonesetting to engraving and beyond for my shop. IF you can get it to cast, you'll need to work harden the metal (for non-ferrous metals), then you have to pray it doesn't warp and there isn't any porosity. I also believe that in order to cast it successfully (again, if there's a chance) you'll need to use so many sprues the back of the case will look like a finished game of Battleship. Then you'll need at least DOUBLE if not TRIPLE the actual weight of the case for the "push".

If I was going to try this project, I'd use milled sheet.

Otherwise, I'd buy one already made to fit, engrave that and then plate it.

Good luck!

Bryce

bidilover · Apr 27, 2014

thanks for the all replys, I am now probaby going to stick to the deep laser engraving and other methods of customizing, but anyways it has been done therefore I was thinking that it aint all that problematic[, so I am sure it aint impossible or that difficult, here is a pic:

and BTW YES I was thinking that gluing the casted plate would be ok, it would be 2-3mm thick.

Perhaps I will anyways give it a shot without the hand engraving but get the plate designed in 3d and wax print it (at a place who has top of the line equipment) and get it casted, even tough you guys all are saying that it's next to impossible, just to see how it goes

Brian Marshall · Apr 27, 2014

What happened to the bike engraving project? http://www.engraverscafe.com/showth...r-to-engrave-bicycle-lugs&p=125855#post125855

Was that one "next to impossible" to finish?

Or are they in "production" yet?

B.

Was even one ever actually finished and sold?

bidilover · Apr 27, 2014

Hi,

It's off topic but I decided to leave hand engravings out of it and the project did not get far, only one bike got made (for me)due to lack of resources, but anyways that was much more difficult process than this and I am sure this can be done with the phones, at least I will try to see how it goes.

Brian Marshall · Apr 27, 2014

Great! Put it up here when it gets done.

My bet is that it will wind up being made of sheet - not cast. But you already know that.

I'd like to see the bike too.

B.

maako · Apr 28, 2014

http://cygnetstamping.com/ here is a place in Glendale CA. I worked for the owners brother in the Machine shop around 1989. they can stamp out the cases you are looking for and they do all there own tool and die work in house.

Question: Does anybody have advice what material is best for castings that will be engraved?

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