Engraver Wanted

I am looking for an experienced engraver to engrave my David Price built swivel breech flintlock rifle.

See here for an example of a swivel breech rifle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmlKTdebjoQ

Someone near the Bay Area of California (near San Francisco) would be nice, but this is not essential. If necessary, I will ship the rifle, or just the parts to be engraved, anywhere in the contiguous USA.

Here is a typical David Price swivel breech rifle:
http://www.davidpriceflintlocks.com/id2.html

Here are examples of what am looking for, but suggestions welcome as long as the motif blends with the wood carving on my rifle:
http://dragonflybridge.net/Carving/SwivelBreech/Engrave/

Parts to engrave (all hardware is steel):
** locks, both sides
** trigger guard
** top of butt plate
** toe plate
** tang
** barrels (there are two barrels)
** nosecap
** thimbles

JonS
California

If anybody knows of an engraver, taken a class from an engraver, etc., please let me know.

JonS

We're In Stockton... and could take it on - if it's not a rush job.

Brian 209-477-0550

I would suggest that the gun in the picture (Link two) would look a lot better without the engraving as it's not in keeping with the gun, the era, and it's not done very good, in fact it de-values a fine piece of work!

Phil

We've had this argument/discussion before Phil. It beats the hell out of me. These guys would rather put a heap of crap engraving on their flintlocks than something decent because they think it looks authentic. What most of them fail to realise was most of the gunmakers who emigrated to America could produce some beautiful flintlocks but they weren't engravers. Not having engravers around to do the work they hacked into the steel themselves and basically made a right mess of the engraving in most cases but for some obscure reason this now has some kind of weird kudos. If you look at the European flintlocks of the time, by comparison, a lot of them were beautifully engraved if you look at the likes of Manton, Mortimer, and Boutet to name but a few.

I had this same argument when A H Fox started up again and they wanted to have the old engraving copied. "Why would you want to copy crap?" I asked and they were under some odd impression that it was some sort of Fox "signature" engraving. I just told them that Fox's obviously knew nothing about decent engraving at the time, and had employed some pretty poor engravers (before you start shouting at me there were some okay ones too) and why anyone would want to copy this just did my head in.

But each to their own and if people want this kind of 'folk art' (for want of another expression) stuff, we'll never sway them. But I'm with you Phil, I'd rather leave a gun plain than put some hokey squiggle on it just for the sake of having something on the gun.

Marcus, I agree with all you say, but I guess it comes down to taste in the end, I mean, some people have it and some don't.

I visit a few forums, quite a few actually, only two are to do with engraving. What get's up my nose is when someone posts some of his work and it's either crap or below average (again, not just engraving) and then there's lot's of replies like "You are pushing the bounderies", "Excellent work", "I have never seen anthing as good" etc. etc. These people as I mentioned either have no taste or now nothing about the subject or item posted.

The problem is that when something really good is posted, the reply, "excellent work" means what?

Phil

Marcus and Phil, I agree with you 100% on this particular piece. The stock work appears first rate, The gun maker has done an excellent job but I agree that the engraving falls far short of the work from Great Britain and France and Germany of the time period. I subscribed to the Double Gun Journal for a number of years to study the engraving, much of it from east of the big puddle. There was also a lot to be desired in "using" guns of the time period in the engraving as well. Time period correct, for a Pennsylvania long gun or a Kentucky rifle is a different game. Scrim has come a long way from the days when whaler crewmen used a canvas needle and lamp black. If someone had a whale tooth, I can understand period correct scrim. Your both absolutely right, The work of many European artists working for the royals in British Empire or the Maharaja's of India or the Louis' of France did not engrave sporting rifles for the Second Lt going off on his great adventure for the Empire. Those guns are often pictured in the Journal and leave a lot to be desired in fit, finish and engraving. Time has made them works of art not the skill of the engraver.
The industrial revolution and mass production brought many jewelry engravers into the gun trade. Their skills with steel created a lot of low end work. Work that was required for that soldier going off for King and Country.
I think this is a great opportunity to educate but some of these collectors want the gun distressed to look its age. can you imagine taking that beautiful piece of work and purposely chipping an banging it to dent it up. using a torch to scorch it so it looks like some pioneer stirred the coals of a camp fire with it. Adding dings to the barrel to age the gun. I don't understand it but I don't dress in 3 corner hats and reenact only battles where the British lost. Fred

I agree with you guys, but do not forget we have different levels and for beginners excellent work mean excellent work in beginner level, especially if you follow beginner’s work. At least it is a very good point to inspire, motivate engravers (beginners). I am sorry, unfortunately I am not a writer, as I mentioned before I am ESL (English Second Language), however I hope you got what I wanted to say.
I agree with Marcus ....."It beats the hell out of me. These guys would rather put a heap of crap engraving on their flintlocks than something decent because they think it looks authentic."
I think in this cause we need to show to requestors the samples of "excellent work", maybe he did not see in his life excellent sample?

What do you think?

Sorry to disagree with you Vlad, but crap is crap. What you may consider excellent work at a certain level of achievement should be correctly labeled "excellent crap." One must not be led down a path of admiration when it isn't deserved. Call it for what it is and let the pupil learn what is expected of him, not continue under false adoration or critique.

Bill

Phil Coggan said:

there's lot's of replies like "You are pushing the bounderies", "Excellent work", "I have never seen anthing as good" etc. etc.

Phil

Click to expand...

99.9% of forum users are just "normal" everyday people, not professionals in the subject discussed but hobbyists (probably this forum being an exception).
Also, there is generally a rule saying you can`t be negative, so your likely to cause a storm by calling something crap even if it is

I think it is understood that everyone of us when starting out, produced crap

I don't think it productive to actually comment on a beginners work by calling it so, what I was getting at was, don't say "This is excellent work" but more like "This is a very good attempt and you are getting there". At least then the student is encouraged to do better and doesn't thing that he is there!

Phil

You've hit the nail right on the head, Phil.

Cheers
Andrew