How to ruin guns with a rotary tool and call yourself a Master while ruining them

DakotaDocMartin · Mar 2, 2014

A friend of mine (who should know better) said he found these guys at the Forks (artsy-craftsy part of town) in Winnipeg, MB Canada:

Rifle stock Engraving -Gun Engraving

It just goes to show how little the public really knows about real hand engraving. Even though I've been trying to educate him for years. He still can't tell rotary tool butchering when he sees it.

dlilazteca · Mar 2, 2014

Dakota

I agree and disagree as for working on metal you're absolutely right, but I have seen some great things done with the rotary on wood here's a picture of a book and DVD that I have by bill janney, he does a great job

Just my two cents worth

Carlos De La O III

monk · Mar 2, 2014

well the title "master" and rotary would seem to be mutually exclusive. however, as above, i've seen some rather nice work done on the wood with these tools. by tools, i do not mean the inexpensive dreml type. i mean ones with good rpm range and a shaft with no real amount of runout. i once worked with a gunsmith/stockmaker. he made his rifle stocks of hard white maple. he would embellish the stocks with a rotary tool that was of german manufacture. it was very nice work. this gentleman had a fear of doing the metal, and rightfully so.
i bought janneys' book and decided to give it a whack. i don't have a final foto of the job, but it was a fairly pleasing design finished off with a dark oil. the foto shows this at about the halfway point

mrthe · Mar 2, 2014

i think that Doc is referring about the works on the metal parts of the guns not to the wood

JJ Roberts · Mar 2, 2014

I've been waning everyone on both forums about the rotary tools and the trouble you can get into when staying to remove the back ground between the leaves on the scrolls,one slip and you'll spend hours fixing the mistake that's if it can be fixed,and as far as carving in wood with a rotary tool the edges look terrible.Get with it and start using the right tools. J.J.

dlilazteca · Mar 2, 2014

JJ

Mr. Janney does not use a rotary for the edges he uses a woodworking hand tool for that.

Carlos De La O III

Dale Hatfield · Mar 2, 2014

I ran across a guy on facebook in 1911 group. That is pimping his roto grinding as engraving. He uses the same crappy pattern on every gun he ruins.
These people are drooling all over it.

dlilazteca · Mar 2, 2014

Dale Hatfield said:
I ran across a guy on facebook in 1911 group. That is pimping his roto grinding as engraving. He uses the same crappy pattern on every gun he ruins.
These people are drooling all over it.

you should point them to this forum so they can see what an engraving should really look like....

Jared Eason · Mar 2, 2014

Its no secret I started my endeavors with a high speed rotary. But now use hand tools . Most of my buckles were done with rotary. But I never used the term engraved. I always referred to it as metal carving. I started with rotary because I didn't know any better but the more I progressed I found I could not get the clean lines , work I wanted and that's when I really discovered real engraving. Y'all can see my work on my face book page ( link below ) it not hard to see what was done with rotary and what wasn't.

Arnaud Van Tilburgh · Mar 3, 2014

Thanks Doc for pointing on this. And it is true, most of my customers when I talk about engraving by hand, they think all of that is done using a rotary tool.

arnaud

Sam · Mar 3, 2014

Hard to look at.

JJ Roberts · Mar 3, 2014

Doc,I am also glad you mentioned the rotary tool and the problems it can cause and I hope we can keep everyone out of trouble because all it takes is one slip and you'll spend hours of unnecessary time fixing the mistake which could have been avoided. J.J.

Arnaud Van Tilburgh · Mar 3, 2014

JJ Roberts said:
Doc,I am also glad you mentioned the rotary tool and the problems it can cause and I hope we can keep everyone out of trouble because all it takes is one slip and you'll spend hours of unnecessary time fixing the mistake which could have been avoided. J.J.

JJ, there are no problems when using a rotary tool. Sure you can slip using it, the same when using a graver. Ask all stone setters as they sure know how to handle a rotary tool without making more slips than you using a graver.

DakotaDocMartin · Mar 3, 2014

Arnaud Van Tilburgh said:
JJ, there are no problems when using a rotary tool. Sure you can slip using it, the same when using a graver. Ask all stone setters as they sure know how to handle a rotary tool without making more slips than you using a graver.

I'm sure that guy in Winnipeg can "grind" on guns with the best of them. But, the average guy on the street doesn't seem to be able to tell if a gun has been ground with a bur or engraved with a graver. I think a person could use a rusty nail and a claw hammer and still a lot of people will like it! I just hate to see nice guns essentially destroyed like that. And, people will actually pay to have it done! We have an all encompassing phrase we use here in the Northland we borrowed from the Norwegians for such things... Uffda!

JJ Roberts · Mar 3, 2014

Arnaud,We are talking about guns not stone setting,I restore and engrave high end classic firearms and there's no room for mistakes.I have a good reputation in the gun trade.I'll keep pointing out the pit falls as I see them. J.J.

Arnaud Van Tilburgh · Mar 3, 2014

JJ, with all respect, we are talking about the use of rotary tools on guns, that could also be stone setting on guns.
Sure I agree, and said it here above, using a rotary bur saying it is engraving doesn't help the craft of hand engraving.
But you also said that one can easily make a slip when using a rotary tool, at least that is what I understand about what you are saying and in my opinion if one has the skills to use a rotary tool on metal, rarely there will be a slip.

So you might disagree, but a good use of rotary tools on guns is when you drill holes in the metal to do a full cover of diamond pavÃ© setting.

arnaud

DakotaDocMartin · Mar 3, 2014

Arnaud Van Tilburgh said:
...using a rotary bur saying it is engraving doesn't help the craft of hand engraving.

:clapping: :thumbsup:

JJ Roberts · Mar 3, 2014

Arnarud,Please show me a gun on the forum that had stones set in it,can remember ever see one I have seen knifes.The only gun I've ever seen with stone setting was in one of Larry Wilson's books on Colts it was done for a Wild West performer. J.J.

Texasgerd · Mar 3, 2014

Best work I've ever seen w/ a rotary tool is some of the Alaska native carvers working on ivory (walrus/mammoth), moose antlers, sheep horns or muskox horns. They'd use rotary tools for 90-95% of the work, get them paper thin in areas (for the light to shine thru), but always end up w/a knife or razor blade for the finish work. Most of their work was with the carbide dental tools (detail work), and sanding drums to remove the bulk of the sculpture. Lots of "tourist" quality work (what you see in the shops in Anchorage), but they had the ability make some stunning pieces.

Dan

Arnaud Van Tilburgh · Mar 3, 2014

JJ, here is one.

And I have seem much more of other goldsmith, I even have seen bullets with stone setting on it that had ballistic perfect proof.

arnaud

How to ruin guns with a rotary tool and call yourself a Master while ruining them

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