Announcement: poor mans: graver blanks and power hone

Sam · Jan 4, 2014

I have no problem with experimenting and testing various carbides and steels for gravers, but when I sit down to work I want to know that what I'm using is the absolute best I can get. All carbides are not created equal, nor are steels. For someone starting out I would strongly encourage you to buy gravers from someone who supplies tools to the hand engraving trade instead of trying to save a few dollars. Gravers last an incredibly long time...in fact I have several that first started with 30+ years ago, so you have to ask yourself how much you're really saving. After you've gotten your necessary gravers then by all have fun experimenting with steel and carbide blanks from other sources. Just my 2-cents. YMMV.

dlilazteca · Jan 4, 2014

sam said:
I have no problem with experimenting and testing various carbides and steels for gravers, but when I sit down to work I want to know that what I'm using is the absolute best I can get. All carbides are not created equal, nor are steels. For someone starting out I would strongly encourage you to buy gravers from someone who supplies tools to the hand engraving trade instead of trying to save a few dollars. Gravers last an incredibly long time...in fact I have several that first started with 30+ years ago, so you have to ask yourself how much you're really saving. After you've gotten your necessary gravers then by all have fun experimenting with steel and carbide blanks from other sources. Just my 2-cents. YMMV.

Sam

When I spoke to them on the phone, he told me he had been selling, to some engravers for many years. For those of us just starting out somewhere around 14 dollars for a blank is a little on the steep side, many tools to buy. I understand the blanks that GRS sells are tried and true but for a 1.41 they're worth a try in my opinion.

Being carbide, for sure they will hold up better than any hss blank.

Of course when someone is engraving at your level, you would want something that is tried and true. You wouldn't want to experiment with a new graver when you're working on an expensive shotgun.

Carlos De La O III

dlilazteca · Jan 4, 2014

bildio said:
I ordered some. For some reason, their order page was very pleasant to use. Might be the font.

Please keep us updated, see how you like them, what size did you buy?

Carlos De La O III

bildio · Jan 4, 2014

dlilazteca said:
Please keep us updated, see how you like them, what size did you buy? Carlos De La O III

3/32" x 3"

Sam · Jan 4, 2014

dlilazteca said:
Being carbide, for sure they will hold up better than any hss blank.

How I wish that were true.

dlilazteca · Jan 4, 2014

sam said:
How I wish that were true.

Sam

Interesting, correct me if I'm wrong, I thought carbide gravers were used instead if hss ( high speed steel) when working in harder metals such as firearms? Because they hold there point/edge better?

Very good learning experience here thanks for your input.

Carlos De La O III

tim halloran · Jan 4, 2014

Dilazteca: I Have some round carbide rod that is called Micro 100. You can buy it in 12 inch lengths and it is quite reasonable price wise. It is micro grain carbide and is made for machine shop use in an interrupted cut application. You have to cut it with a diamond wheel and makes excellent gravers. It comes in various diameters and you can cut it to what ever length you need. I bought it from a company called Peerless Supply. Give it a try.

Sam · Jan 4, 2014

Carbide is always my first choice because of its hardness and ability to maintain a bright polish (for jewelry engraving). The tradeoff is that carbide is many times harder but also many times more brittle. There are plenty of times when carbide breaks too easily and HSS gravers are the best choice. That might be in gun metal, stainless steel, 14k white gold, etc. Many engravers have tricks for getting better performance with carbide including dubbing the point, steeper face angle, etc., but there are times when it just won't work as well as HSS. There are also many types of carbides with different size grain structure, etc. They can be vastly different so just because it says "carbide" doesn't guarantee it's the right type for hand engravers.

dlilazteca · Jan 4, 2014

Sam

Thank you, always learning, the ones I bought say micrograin on the site. Not sure, but I do own some blank gravers bought from engraving supplies, what you said makes sense, I guess I'll practice with these, since there cheaper. Use the tried and true blanks, for when I really get down to business. I just have to give these a shot first.

I've cut practice plates, inlayed some silver on practice plates, and cut a silver bracelet in bright cut so far with these mentioned blanks.

But I guess I'll find out how truly good they are when I get to the harder stuff.

Carlos De La O III

dlilazteca · Jan 4, 2014

tim halloran said:
Dilazteca: I Have some round carbide rod that is called Micro 100. You can buy it in 12 inch lengths and it is quite reasonable price wise. It is micro grain carbide and is made for machine shop use in an interrupted cut application. You have to cut it with a diamond wheel and makes excellent gravers. It comes in various diameters and you can cut it to what ever length you need. I bought it from a company called Peerless Supply. Give it a try.

Tim

Thank you

Carlos De La O III

Sam · Jan 4, 2014

They might work just fine. I hope they do especially because of the price.

My reasoning is...especially for beginners...is to eliminate as many variables as possible to maximize chances for success. If a graver fails or is troublesome, the newbie doesn't know if he/she's sharpened it incorrectly, has poor form, is pushing beyond its limits, or the metal's too hard, etc. The experienced engraver will usually know in very short order if a graver is at fault, while the beginner can get stuck in a cycle of resharpening, engraving, breaking, resharpening, engraving, breaking, not knowing what the heck is causing the problem. I know because I've been there and I've seen students have similar issues with crappy quality gravers someone gave them. So that's the reason for my caution. I'm not trying to discourage you from experimentation. I love it myself. But anyone starting out should do themselves a huge favor and buy gravers from an engraving tool supplier.

dlilazteca · Jan 4, 2014

Sam

Thanks, always something to learn.

Carlos De La O III

monk · Jan 5, 2014

carlos-- 1or 2 drops of mineral oil on the 4" diamond disk. spread with the finger.
no heat, dust, then turn on your hone. the oil viscosity at the hones' speed does not require cleanup. no splatter of the oil.

monk · Jan 5, 2014

ah, sweet carbide ! at one time i thought this stuff was my savoir. sure taught me how to sharpen. for most of what i do, hss is pretty good stuff.

Southern Custom · Jan 5, 2014

Not all carbides are created equally. Oh so true. My partner and I found a nice supplier of pre-shaped carbide gravers in Armenia. Round shanks to fit GRS quickchange tips and standard graver shapes. Touted as being the best quality Swiss carbide with the best properties for engraving. As I recall we each spent around $150 bucks apiece at around $25 bucks a graver. Long story short. Some of the most brittle stuff I've ever had the pleasure of cutting metal with. I keep them around for bright cutting gold and platinum as they will snap on anything harder.
Carbide is finicky stuff. If just starting out, standard gravers will do the job just fine for copper, silver and mild steel.
Keep us updated on the material. I'm always curious about something new. (even to the detriment of my pocketbook)
Layne

Sam · Jan 5, 2014

I recently tested a beautifully made set of carbide gravers and every one of them failed. Far too brittle and absolutely useless for my work, but they sure looked good.

dlilazteca · Jan 5, 2014

So far so good, like I mentioned in what I've cut so far, I have some stainless throw away gun parts, need to do some test cuts. Ill keep you updated. $1.41 each, not much to lose here.

Carlos De La O III

silverchip · Jan 6, 2014

I worked for a carbide router bit mnfg company in my early days as an assembler,I used to silver solder the carbide on the router body blanks before they got ground and sharpened. This is where id discovered carbide as a tool blank for engraving.I asked the guy who owned the company about different grades of carbide and their properties pertaining to density and brittleness. One of the things that he showed me was that if a piece of carbide seemed to be too brittle was heating it to almost white hot and letting it cool on its own before continuing on with shaping it.This seemed to work most of the time for me but I am just relaying my experience from that time, they gave me all the carbide I wanted and it came in various shapes and grades. If the shape I wanted was a bit brittle, I could use this process with some success. If it didn't, I just got another blank and moved on.

Southern Custom · Jan 6, 2014

I've never heard about annealing carbide. Curiouser and curiouser. Never hurts to try on an otherwise useless tool.
Layne

Marcus Hunt · Jan 9, 2014

dlilazteca said:
Sam

When I spoke to them on the phone, he told me he had been selling, to some engravers for many years. For those of us just starting out somewhere around 14 dollars for a blank is a little on the steep side, many tools to buy. I understand the blanks that GRS sells are tried and true but for a 1.41 they're worth a try in my opinion.

Being carbide, for sure they will hold up better than any hss blank.

Of course when someone is engraving at your level, you would want something that is tried and true. You wouldn't want to experiment with a new graver when you're working on an expensive shotgun.

Carlos De La O III

It always amazes me that engravers are sooooooo tight! My old man used to make gravers out of old fencing blades because he found it to be nice steel and the blade could have another use after being damaged or broken. But for the most part, your average graver lasts a looooonggggg time and when I see how many $thousands one graver blank can make me it it's got to be one of the cheapest tools on the planet.

Personally, I find Lindsay carbalt and GRS C-max the best to date if you must have carbide. To be honest. The quicker I can set up a graver blank that I know is tried and tested the better, then I can cut with confidence that the tool will do what it's meant to do.

Announcement: poor mans: graver blanks and power hone

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