Question for the pro's

dclevinger

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Here is my situation. A client of mine has a Winchester 54, precursor to the model 70, in 30-06 and he plans to have it rebored and chambered to 9.3. The original caliber is on the left side of the barrel extension. Under any other circumstance, I would just file the lettering off of the extension, polish and recut. The problem that I have is a proof mark that is less that a quarter of an inch away. To file the barrel and keep the contour correct I would have to remove a portion the rolled stamped proof. The client doesn't want it touched.

I've thought about inlaying some soft iron wire but I'm worried about the color matching once it's re-blued. Also thought about peening the metal around the lettering to fill it in to reduce the amout of draw filling but again I'm worried about messing up the contour or getting into the proof mark. I haven't accepted the job at this point but the client has a friend that wants the same treatment on his rifle as well. I would love to hear your opinions. Thanks
David
 

Weldon47

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David,

If it were me, I would inlay soft iron or non-hardening steel, stone, file, sand flush & then re-cut the lettering. Unfortunately, there is a possibility that there may be a color difference in that area when you reblue. Peening around the original marking will harden that spot and is also likely to result in a color variation. I would inform the client of the "possibility" of a color mismatch & let him make the call. That way he knows the risks involved beforehand and should he choose to proceed you're covered IF the color difference is noticeable - it may not be!
My two cents worth,

Weldon
 

SamW

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David, if the barrel will be hot dip blued there will likely be a slight color difference and the old numbers will be visable under the right light. If the barrel is rust blued it has been my experience that the soft iron inlay does not show. I assume the original cal. lettering is somewhat large stamped numbers. If you can get an old used Win. barrel of the same material, you could actually cut a large curl from it to use to inlay in the numbers. This would probably not show after bluing. Would your customer go for rust bluing? That would be the best way with the least likely result of color difference. S
 

dclevinger

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Thanks guys.

Weldon, I didn't think about the possible spot hardening. Good call. What would be a good source for small diameter soft iron wire?

Sam W, Yes the lettering is pretty big, 1/4 " tall or more. I'm not sure if I can track down another old barrel but I do think he would go for rust blue. Just in case one turns up, do you try to round the newly cut sliver or just leave it as is, anneal it and tap it in?

John, Thanks again. A reply is on it's way.

David
 

Weldon47

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David,

Though it may not be the "best quality", tie wire (used in tying rebar & available at most home improvement centers) will work. I use 1018 steel in bar stock form for similar occasions. 1018 is non-hardening & can be cut or ground to size pretty easily with the equipment most of us have. It is available through most knifemaking supply houses or from steel suppliers.
Hope that helps,

Wedlon
 

fegarex

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David,
All the replies have been very good but I question the reason for doing all this in the first place. The gun will NOT be original after the barrel is bored, remarked and reblued. Why is the proof so important? I would think it would be easier to make a pull of the proof, go ahead and do your file work and recut the proof if needed. Frankly, unless this job paid a LOT of money, I would just pass on it anyhow. I think this is one of those jobs that will work you over.
 

dclevinger

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Weldon, I'll have to check the local stores and see what they have. Thanks a bunch.

Rex, It is odd that the proof mark is so important even after the other alterations. I have know idea what the deal is. He does want some other work done, gold bands and such but you may be right. There is no hurry on the project so I'll talk to him and see what he thinks.
David
 

Barry Lee Hands

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Lots of good ideas here.
I would peen it, and call Ray Philipps at NGRAVER and order a Win proof stamp. Pull a smoke before you start and he can duplicate it perfectly.
 

Mike Cirelli

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A lot of jewelry shop have laser welders now. They can weld at pin point accuracy. I would think it could be filled in very easily with one. It may cost you 75 or 100 dollars but you wouldn't have to mess around. Then all you would have to do is stone it down re-engrave and it would never be noticed.
 

monk

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i agree with rex, what's with the mark anyway ? it's invalid after the rework anyway. at least from a collectors' viewpoint. i also would never alter any mark on a gun. why would one do that ? i would let the client do that himself, or go take opera lessons .
 

SamW

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David, I use the chip as is. I haven't filled anything as large as factory stamped cal. markings but it should work OK if you can cut a chip big enough from an old barrel. I mostly use this technique by saving a few curls from a barrel or action and use to fill gall marks or pits so they won't show when blued. It is not needed on most stuff I work on but now and then! The floorplate I am working on now had a lengthwise tool or gall mark that was deeper than I wanted to polish out so I have saved a curl from cutting the border lined and will use that to fill the blimish. S
 

KSnyder

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I'm with Rex also. After the gun is re-chambered, rebored etc. the proof mark is meaningless.
It is out of original factory spec.
Btw, most of the 9.3mm rounds I see in the 7th edition of Cartridges of the world are at or slighty below the 30.06 chambering in preformance and power. Not my gun but why chamber to a cartridge thats almost the same as what you got now?:rolleyes:
my $.02
Kent
 

Bob Bullard

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I think I have a old m 70 barrel somewhere here if you want it ( prewar) it has been cut off
and is shot out if you want it let me know and I will start looking for it.
The 9.3 has alot heavier bullet for the standard load 270 gr. I have one and wordered why also
 

ED DELORGE

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Hello David, Lectroetch is the answer to these kind of problems. I do a lot of resteration on firearms, and it is quite often that I deal with this kind of problem. Forinstance, I am polishing out an old Colt single action that has a lot of deep pitting around the rampent colt. I will make a smoking of the rampent colt and send it to Lectroetch they will make me an exact template for about $25.00. I will then file off the entire piece polish out the gun and do a deep etch exactly as it was before minus the pits in about one minute. I only learned of lectroetch a few years ago from my old classmate Hamilton Bowen. I wish I had been taught the method while in Gunsmith School.

Ed DeLorge
 

John B.

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David and others.
If you do need soft iron wire to fill small mistakes or old rolled in lettering there are a few good sources.
Most jewelry supply outfits sell it in rolls in diameters from 10 to 25 thousands thick.
Just be sure to get carbon steel, not the newer stainless.
The carbon wire usually blues to a good match with most guns.
This is something that we always demo in Basic Engraving class.
If you have a small job like a few letters or numbers and don't have a supply of soft iron wire on hand just strip off the paper or plastic from supermarket twist ties.
They are soft iron wire inside and free.
But test them before inlay with some cold blue, some of the newer ones have stainless wire inside.
By the way, you can do some interesting things with stainless or carbon wire.
Off the subject a little, I realize but.......
Inlay carbon wire into a stainless background or gun, blue the piece and you have a flush black line or border.
Stainless wire will do the reverse when inlaid into carbon steel, of course.
Best, John B.
 

dclevinger

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Thank you very much everyone. I will talk to the client in the next week or so, see what he says and decide if I'm going to accept the job. I have plenty of work right now but I still find it very tough to turn work away. We'll see what happens.

David
 

Cody

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Why couldn't you just inlay a silver plate where the stamp is and engrave the new cal on that?. If the gun is to have some gold boarders anyway, a gold boarder around the silver plate will look nice and go well with the other gold boardering.
 

Thierry Duguet

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Hello,

I shall point out that technically no one is suppose to remove ANY factory original stamping at least if you read and interpret to the letter the BATF rules and regulations.
 

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