Announcement: EasyGraver sharpening fixture by GRS

j.c.

Member
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Nov 9, 2006
Messages
52
Bob,

From your posts regarding the Lindsay sharpening method, your time would be better spent it seems contemplating Uranus rather than blathering on about what you obviously do not understand.


Concerning “ hopping aroundâ€￾ in this thread:


I am surprised at the number of people who cash checks from GRS that seem to have no desire to address a very simple question about their new tool offering with other than double talk and useless remarks.


However, I will endeavor to remain respectfully patient and may yet receive a definitive answer to a very simple, legitimate request for information.

If you want engravers to purchase one, simply address the question put forth.

j.c.
 

Andrew Biggs

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This is starting to get a bit out of hand.

I'm working on the assumption that none of us are lawyers. I also fail to see what patents have to do with any of us or the tool that Sam has started this thread with. If there is a problem it will get sorted out by the parties involved………………... So there's no point in arguing about it or banging on about it.

We all have different ways of looking at the technical side of things and we all approach the job/tools in a similar fashion but different.

The reality is that all of these configurations face/heel/shapes work……it's just a matter of personal preference with no wrongs or rights about it.

From what I can see the GRS EasyGraver fixture is another clever tool we can put in our toolboxes for those that want them. For those that prefer something else all is well and good.

To quote the British Post Office during WWII…………….Keep calm and carry on :)

Cheers
Andrew
 

j.c.

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Nov 9, 2006
Messages
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Andrew,
This thread is not getting out of hand.

I do agree with you, the issue of Lindsay’s patent has no bearing on GRS new tool offering, other than offering an explanation to the difference between a parallel heel and a relived parallel heel.

What I do not understand is the continued reluctance of you or anyone else that has posted here
regarding this new “clever tool to put in our tool boxes”; to simply give a concise reason why we as engravers should put it there.

What is the benefit to a parallel heel with no additional clearance angles?

I will leave it at that.

j.c.
 
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fegarex

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I guess I am one that cashes checks.. but I guess I don't really know what the question is.
It sharpens a tool fast and I like it for that. I'm not an engineer nor a lawyer so I don't know any of those answers nor do I really care to.
I just like to engrave and really hate to sharpen tools. Whatever gets me going faster makes me happy.
Some may like the tool, some may not. I still use my dual angle sharpener as well but for resharpening broken points it works well for me.
Your mileage may vary.
 

DakotaDocMartin

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This is funny!

Bob,

From your posts regarding the Lindsay sharpening method, your time would be better spent it seems contemplating Uranus rather than blathering on about what you obviously do not understand.

 

oiseau metal arts

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Jan 18, 2012
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TN
ok so i had to go all way back to page 2 before putting my foot too far in my mouth.
andrew seems to have discribed the difference betweem the 2.
we all engrave using magnification, (i know i love my microscope) so might i make the suggestion of zooming out a bit?
the debate seems tangled up on the very tip of the graver, when its whats behind it that makes them different.
the "lindsay parallel heel" looks like a "double heel" (to make the clearance angle)

as for the patent deal..... is it the geometry or the tool that is patented?

man can you imagine if pythagoras had patented all his work. talk about some serious accumulative damages.
 

Andrew Biggs

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Hi jc

Your original question.........Of what benefit is a parallel heel by itself with no additional clearance angles?

The reason I haven't answered that is because I wouldn't have a clue. I have been many things in my life but never an engineer or mathematician. All I know is that I sharpen my gravers and they work. An engineer will have to give you an answer as to how or why they work.

Your second question........"to simply give a concise reason why we as engravers should put it there"

It is not my job on the forum to convince you one way or the other what you should buy and what you shouldn't. If you think it will add value to your tool box then buy it. If you think that it's a waste of time, then don't buy it. I'm happy either way. :)

Cheers
Andrew
 

airamp

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May 1, 2008
Messages
287
Well I am not surprised by the double talk and back biting in this thread (it is too common and way off the subject).

The fact of the matter is that the tool offered in my opinion is a basic fixed geometry, has little or no advantage or flexibility to the user when compared to many other systems on the market and is obviously overpriced for its purpose.

What surprises me the most is that Glendo Corp. that does make some fine flexiable grinding fixtures for machinests, allowed this to be released by GRS engraving div.

Maybe for $11.85 it would have some use.

I find it insulting to offer such a tool at the asking price (EasyGraver retails for $118 ). REALLY???

For 1/5th of the price many better systems are available.

I guess this offering at this price makes a statement like:

Engravers HAVE MORE DOLLARS THAN CENTS.
 
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oiseau metal arts

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jc........
its the tip/edge that is doing the cutting not what is behind it. the clearance angle is just an extra set of facets to cut and polish regardless if the tip is set with a regular or parallel heel.

(just grabbing some random #s here) if cutting with a 15 degree heel and you need more clearance..... switch to 20 degree.
im just not seeing what real difference it makes to stop at 10 degrees, and then go on to 20 degrees. to truely achieve the "clearance" either adjust your technique, or use concave facets so there is physically nothing behind the heel.
 

Crazy Horse

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Philly
I think I can sum the situation up.

If'n you don't like the new tool, don't buy it.
If'n you do like the tool, buy it.
If'n you can't understand the geometry, enroll in MIT.

Or, you could just continue to sharpen your gravers as you always have.

Problem solved! ;~)
 

fjkratky

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Dec 24, 2006
Messages
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Location
Broadview Montana
Why do these posts always have to become a manufacturers bashing. It is a jig, if you think it will help you sharpen then great it is a good investment. If something else works for you fine use that.
 

oiseau metal arts

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fjkatky....................


because we all have openions, and uranus.... except for brianpowley. (with special thanks to Giacomo Fausti, Ugo Talenti and Giovanni Steduto, and their carborundum stone) he has a saturn.
 

Sam

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I honestly don't know the difference between how Lindsay sharpens his gravers and this one. Like I said, I'm a newbie with this geometry. I've never been a user of the parallel heel other than occasionally making a taller (and not necessarily exactly parallel) heel on a square graver for trimming sidewalls in relief engraving. And after using this geometry for awhile now I can say it works quite nicely, although I can engrave just fine with a conventional heel graver.

This fixture does exactly what it's designed to do, which is quickly sharpen a specific graver which is mounted in a GRS QC graver holder. That's all. If you don't like it, think it's too limited, or think that it's overpriced, then by all means don't buy it. It's a dang nice tool and I'm liking the convenience, and so are my students who have tried it.

~Sam
GRS check casher for 14 years, and immensely proud of it.
 

j.c.

Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
52
Seems I missed this post by Chris DeCamills. My Bad,

I would not have said another word on the subject except thanks!... if I had seen it earlier.

From page 6

“ jc. There is no advantage to a parallel heel without a relief grind of some sort behind the heels. I agree with you one hundred percent. You can lean a tool with a normal heel and get just as good and smooth cut as you do with a parallel heel.”

Thanks Chris, sorry I missed it.

j.c.
 

Red Green

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Aug 19, 2011
Messages
391
The bottom of a square graver be it 50 degrees or 130 is the bottom of the graver you can call them relieving grinds all you want, if you put a parallel heel on it is a Lindsay Parallel Point. I know the patent office is no joke, when you get a patent it means something and violating patents is wrong. It's bad enough that the Chinese plunder America's patents but when Americas corporations start blatantly selling patented products and are not stopped the days of American invention are numbered. I know if it were my patent I'd be a bit unhappy to say the least.

Bob
 

oiseau metal arts

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i need to check to see if the patent to the 105 square graver with 45 degree face and 15 degree heel is still open..... buy it.... wait 10 years.... sue everyone.... retire to south america.

*rolls dice.... moves boot around board...

id like to buy the patent rights for 105 square graver with 45 degree face and 15 degree heel, then build 2 houses
 

James Roettger

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This point to me looks exactly like the Lindsay patented point. The "parallel heel" is the crux of his patent, regardless of the "V" or heel angles used. The "relieving" facets on his are cut with the GRS jig by the "shaping" grind function which compliments the 120 "V" point at an angle sufficiently different to create the parallel heels. If you take a standard 90 degree square graver and cut parallel heels at 15 degree lift you end up with something in the neighborhood of a 70 degree cutting "V" and it is as the patent now stands a Lindsay point by virtue of it's parallel heels. (please give me a 5 minute running head start)
 

Sam

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Ok here's the deal. Every day patents are disputed all over the world. Such is business. This forum is not the place for patent disputes and no one is going to try and convict anyone in this thread. Take it elsewhere, please. No other warnings.
 

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