Announcement: EasyGraver sharpening fixture by GRS

John P. Anderson

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Sam,

Thanks for the heads up on a new product. It's as good to know what all tools are available as much as it is to know a new engraving technique.

John
 

Red Green

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j.c.

Read the patent, it is about the heel on a square graver I see nothing about clearance angles, only the fact you must grind a V to make the graver for the heels to work.

Bob
 

Andrew Biggs

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Hi Bob

The two things are different. They look the same but in fact are not........it's a technical/engineering thing to do with the way the angles are set up and relate to each other. So therefore the whole patent thing is a non issue. The devil is in the detail.

As to the sides and top, by saying it was irrelevant, I was referring to either jig or freehand. Of course they have to be reasonably symmetrical. Having said that I've seen a few that are as rough as guts. Mine included if I'm in a hurry :)


Cheers
Andrew
 

Haraga.com

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j.c.

Read the patent, it is about the heel on a square graver I see nothing about clearance angles, only the fact you must grind a V to make the graver for the heels to work.

Bob

What does the patent have to do with the tool?
 

Red Green

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Andrew,

The patent is in simple English, no technical/engineering talk at all, if you read it is says it all.

Bob
 

KCSteve

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Having tried to grind a Uniform Parallel Point following the directions I can tell you it's very different from a simple 120 with a parallel heel. That's why I have a pretty good set of Lindsay templates.

The value I see in this new jig is just as mentioned above - you initially form your point however you want (I'd probably use the jig for the point, my Dual Angle to shape the top the way I wanted, and then use the jig for quick resharpening. Being able to just pop a QC graver out of your handpiece and into the jig and get the same exact angles means you'll get an even more consistent point.

Not the be all and end all, just a nice addition to the toolbox.
 

j.c.

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Hey Bob…

What do you think “relieving facetsâ€￾ are?





“The two things are different. They look the same but in fact are not........it's a technical/engineering thing to do with the way the angles are set up and relate to each other. So therefore the whole patent thing is a non issue.â€￾


They do not look the same, and it is not simply a technical/engineering thing… one is parallel; the other is parallel with clearance given to the bottom of the graver.


So once again I put forth the question:


“Of what benefit is a parallel heel by itself with no additional clearance angles?

j.c.
 
Last edited:

Tim Wells

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For 30+ years I've rounded the top of my gravers as in my previous post, which was the way Lynton McKenzie did his and taught me to do. I've never thought much about treating the top of the graver any other way. Not saying my/Lynton's way is the best. Just the way I've always done them.

Then one of my students said that if my gravers had a ridge down the center it would be easier to see how I roll them in my videos and on TV in a classroom. That thought never occurred to me, so using my Dual Angle fixture, I sharpened the top of this graver accordingly.

The EasyGraver fixture has no built-in way to do what I've done in this photo, and I don't remember exactly what settings I used on my Dual Angle. Like I said, it's not anything I've ever considered to be important for my tools, but others might feel differently.

View attachment 20763

That's a neat idea especially for the camera, have you tested it out yet and watched it on a screen? Makes the face look almost like a tiny stop sign.
 

Red Green

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j.c.

Are you calling the bottom of the graver "clearance angles"? if so yes you must be using a square graver for the parallel heel to work. If not what are you talking about?

Bob
 

Red Green

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Which of those technical engineering words are giving you trouble Andrew? :thinking:

Bob
 

fegarex

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Since the topics on the thread seem to hop around....
Sam's top grind has worked for him well and he mentioned the "point" shape. I have just found it handy in my years of work to have at least a flat top to give me reference on how the tool is being held. I've tried to grind the shape but never seem to have a steady hand or burn HSS gravers. I now just rough it with a 260 wheel and take a couple more minutes.
 

Kevin Scott

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Quote from j.c.
So once again I put forth the question:


“Of what benefit is a parallel heel by itself with no additional clearance angles?
[/QUOTE]

j.c., I have been thinking about this also, trying to figure out what this geometry is and is not.

Here is what I think, which could be way wrong:
This GRS fixture makes two heels. The second heel, at a higher angle than the first heel, shortens the heel, to whatever length you want. A shorter heel makes heel drag damage less of a problem. It is basically the traditional geometry with a short traditional heel.

The Lindsay geometry from what I understand bevels the cutting edge, giving clearance on turns and just about eliminates heel drag damage.

Again, this is my interpretation, and could be wrong, and if so, hopefully someone will correct me.
 

Christian DeCamillis

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No one ever said there was a formula for the tapering of the sides and top. But tapering them is important as many here have stated and i stated that earlier as well as why. Seems that whenever something is said people tend to read int a statement things that are simply not there. The point is that using two fixtures to do what one can already do seems redundant. As i stated you could resharpen faster with just the dual angle. It's not necessary to even tighten the screw for bottom geometry, nor do you have to take on and off the post every time you grid as you will with this fixture. Accuracy will still only be as good as the tolerance of the hole to the shaft it rides on, as it wears so will your accuracy as with anything like this.
If you want speed and accuracy then the QC with the template system by Bob Finley is the best without a doubt. You can sharpen with your eyes closed.

jc. There is no advantage to a parallel heel without a relief grind of some sort behind the heels. I agree with you one hundred percent. You can lean a tool with a normal heel and get just as good and smooth cut as you do with a parallel heel.

As far as drag is concerned if you don't drop your wrist when you make a curved cut you can cut without drag even without a heel. Most people drop there wrist ever so slightly when they begin to cut a curved line . I have seen it many times.

Red Green . The patent isn't about a parallel heel if so they wouldn't of granted it he names it in the prior art. The parallel heel has been published before. In the winters engraving school book for sure. If the patent was granted and that wasn't claimed as prior art then the patent would be invalid anyway. As far as damages go. What would be the damages? There is no charge to become licensed to teach it. Doesn't say you can't use it for yourself. Maybe i missed something here but that is my take on it.

Chris
 

Red Green

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Kevin,

Read the patent it say what a parallel heel is and how to obtain one and states that converging facets do not detour the patent.

Bob
 

Haraga.com

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Are you for real Bob? What does the patent have to do with the tool that grs sells?
 

Red Green

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Chris,

What you are saying is not true, Steve Lindsay owns the patent to the heel. Individuals do not have the right to use the heel for engraving if they do not agree to and sign the agreement Steve Lindsay has on his website. No one has any rights to the heel unless Steve gives it to them as the patent owner.

Bob
 

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