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  1. #21
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    So it seems the answer to my question is no.

    As far as the top and sides being irrelevant. That makes no sense and I would have to disagree as to what was said about them being irrelevant. Firstly why would you go through all the trouble to make a perfect grind on the point and then take no care in forming the top and sides? Second. The tapering of the sides and the top are important as it relates to the way you view where the cutting point is. If the tapers are not even and the top is not ground centered then it makes it very difficult to place the point where it needs to be. Especially when cutting fine lines and lines that are very close together.

    Don't take my word for it give it a try make a graver with a perfect point as far as the cutting portion and then grind the top and sides any old way. let the two sides come in at different angles and don't let the top align with the cutting tip. Then start cutting and one will see how important it becomes to have it all even.

    I do agree that doing it by hand or with a fixture isn't so important as long as it's even. But if a fixture is suppose to make it faster and more accurate then why wouldn't you design all the grinding into the fixture. As I see it I don't see any time savings with this. You have to take it on and off of the post more times than if you just used the dual angle. In fact I think the dual angle would be faster. I will say that the Lindsay templates would be much faster. Although i am not a big supporter of templates for the beginner since you won't learn anything about sharpening starting with them. Once you understand sharpening and have decided on a geometry that suits you. Then a template that allows you to sharpen or resharpen more quickly makes a lot of sense. It's not that hard to make a template for yourself that can do what you want.

    I do agree that a parallel heeled graver is not the same as the patented point of Steve Lindsay.

    Chris
    Innovate don't Imitate !
    http://engraversstudio.com/

  2. #22
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    Nov 2006
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    Midvale, Id
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    I can't really see why it is a big deal that this fixture does not grind tapers. When I saw this tool I did not think of it as something to replace my dual angle fixture. My thought was, that with this I could resharpen broken or dulled points in a fraction of the time I can with my dual angle fixture. Being I engrave for a living, the less time I spend sharpening, the more time I am engraving and engraving is the part that pays. My first actual thought was "dang, that is so simple, why did I not think of that!"



    Disclaimer: I am not promoting this tool, I do not have any affiliation with GRS or any of it's competitors. My statements are just my own honest opinions. Take it as such, just an opinion.
    Last edited by Brian Hochstrat; 08-01-2012 at 04:13 PM.

  3. #23
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    What is the difference between the parallel heel and Lindsay shapes?

  4. #24
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    Nov 2006
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    durango , co
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    Well said Brian. It seems to be a quick easy way to touch up graver points.

    The grind on the top and sides of the tools vary according to the actual shape and size of the graver material and what I will actually be using the graver for. To have a set template for this part of the tool grind is a waste of time. You just want to be able to remove enough excess material to make resharpening easier and you want it be able to lead your eye to the point. To suggest that there is a set formula for this is blowing smoke at people who have less experience. If you're going to make an issue about something at least make it about something that really matters.





  5. #25
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    Oh, GRS does not have an agreement with Lindsay, that's not so good. I've read the patent no math in it, just describes the heel and how it is used. As far as I can tell there is no difference, a parallel heel is a parallel heel. This must not be the first time this has come up, I found this on Lindsay's website; http://www.engravingschool.com/priva...ent-system.htm . I do know there is no time limit on patent enforcement and damages are accumulative, I wouldn't want that hanging over my head for years and years.

    Bob

  6. #26
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    Nov 2006
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    Covington, Louisiana
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    For 30+ years I've rounded the top of my gravers as in my previous post, which was the way Lynton McKenzie did his and taught me to do. I've never thought much about treating the top of the graver any other way. Not saying my/Lynton's way is the best. Just the way I've always done them.

    Then one of my students said that if my gravers had a ridge down the center it would be easier to see how I roll them in my videos and on TV in a classroom. That thought never occurred to me, so using my Dual Angle fixture, I sharpened the top of this graver accordingly.

    The EasyGraver fixture has no built-in way to do what I've done in this photo, and I don't remember exactly what settings I used on my Dual Angle. Like I said, it's not anything I've ever considered to be important for my tools, but others might feel differently.

    top_faceted.jpg

  7. #27
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    I have a GRS dual angle fixture as well as a couple of Lindsey sharpening fixtures. Once my graver is sharpened completely I find the fastest way to refresh a dulled or chipped tip is the Lindsey fixture. It takes but a couple of minutes and if I choose to increase or decrease the face angle I merely set the graver farther out or less far out of the jig to obtain a 50 degree or 45 degree face. Pretty simple.

    It appears changing the face angle on this new and greatly more expensive fixture cannot be done unless one shims the tool post. If that be the chosen path, in order to get the (new) correct face angle one would have to do a little trigonometry.

    The new GRS tool is a good tool but could use with a bit more inovation with regard to the relief cuts needed on top of the tool.
    Tollerance is the virtue of a man without convictions.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Green View Post
    Oh, GRS does not have an agreement with Lindsay, that's not so good. I've read the patent no math in it, just describes the heel and how it is used. As far as I can tell there is no difference, a parallel heel is a parallel heel. This must not be the first time this has come up, I found this on Lindsay's website; http://www.engravingschool.com/priva...ent-system.htm . I do know there is no time limit on patent enforcement and damages are accumulative, I wouldn't want that hanging over my head for years and years.

    Bob
    Much like guns. Tools don't make Lindsay gravers, people do.

  9. #29
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    People don't make or make money from GRS fixtures, GRS does.

    Bob

  10. #30
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    The way I see it is people do make money from grs fixtures because it may allow them to complete an engraving job faster. Am I correct?

  11. Likes bronc liked this post

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