Help, please: Advice removing rust pits and bad design

quickcut07

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If you plan to go ahead with what Chris has laid out check your area weld test facilities to see if they have a spectagraph to read the metal. If one is available this will give you an idea of the proper filler wire to use. Tig is a good choice but the reciever needs to be clean. Tig does not like rust and will not work over rust, the area needs to be free of it. If it is not you will inject porosity into the part and create another problem. The approach is sound if the proper steps are taken. Using the parent metal for filler is good. You need to find a good welding machine with fine current control. Our metalurgy guy took a job in Rhode Island somewhere so I can't bounce the idea off him, but the makeup of the parent metal would need to be known. Hope this helps, it would really not be feasable unless you have a lot of time and hope to learn from it. In that case I could be a great project.
Good Luck Eric.
 

Ed Westerly

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I would suggest rust bluing when you are finished as opposed to hot bluing. It can be much more forgiving as far as all of the areas taking the bluing uniformly.
 

Christopher Malouf

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Douglas, I'm certain that the burnisher is the only one GRS carries. Also get the round 1/8" carbide blanks .... slightly round off the edge and polish.

Have to put it on my bucket list but maybe a brief tutorial on using a jeweler's laser to fill pits on a clunky old gun. I wonder how well that PUKIII mini TIG would work? Probably really well.

By the way ... if you can, try to get with someone who does both refinishing and engraving. As far as I know, JJ is the only one who teaches refinishing for engravers. You need to have the correct finishing files and shapes especially for the tight curved areas at the ends of flat sides. Other than using a tiny ball bur in an 850 rotary tool to clean rust out of the deep pits, steer clear of any other piece of equipment that can be measured in RPMs unless it runs on high octane gasoline and you can ride it.
 
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quickcut07

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That PUKIII looks like am awsome unit for for delivery of fine controlled heat. Never used one but looks good. Any idea on how it would work with ferous metals. I would guess it should do an outstanding job with less heat requirments that non ferous parts. If you could get a combo of JJ ,Chris , and the proper filler material together with that unit a new market could be opened in the resto business. Here again it will take the knowledge of the old hands with some new tech equipment and if all comes together right its a beautiful thing. This does look like a long slow process but usually the first one takes a lot of time, the ones that follow are usually easier. Restoring a gun I know nothing about, find the proper hand tools (old school stuff ) and get a plan together before proceeding. Good point to stay away from the high octane stuff,it can get you into trouble quicker than a file and take much more to repair. Keep us posted if it works well you could end up a busy man.
Eric
 

Arnaud Van Tilburgh

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Eric, sure the PUKIII needs heat to weld, but it is just on one small area at the time, so I can weld next to pave setting to add wear of beads. I also use mine sometimes to weld anything that got broken in the kitchen. And it is even able to weld gold on steel, or Ti on gold.
Quite similar perhaps than a laser welder, only cheaper and in my opinion it works better.

arnaud
 

rodsta

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Hey Chris I'd like to see that tutorial. I have a laser welder and have tried steel a couple of times but with poor results, usually crystallized metal that is very brittle.
Rod
 

Christopher Malouf

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Hey Eric, Arno ... thanks guys. Eric, definitely gotta get my own mini TIG here.

Rod, low carbon and mild steels are laser welded in millions of different applications and higher carbon content steels are not used because it cracks. Guns made in the mid 19th Century up to the point where higher carbon content steel and alloys were introduced (and case hardening was no longer needed) fit into the laser welding scenario best.

Lemme push my Harley back into the garage and cancel my cookouts. .. ;o) Seriously, I think there's something old around here to weld on ... I'll be at the jewelry store next week to pick up trophies.
 
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kfengraver

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i agree a laser welder is a good option but you will need some wire that is the same metal to fill those pits. still it will take hours to be done.
 

Christopher Malouf

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For the non-believers out there ...

... using a jewelry laser welder to fill pitting on an old gun. This piece is a finger lever for a circa 1880s Winchester Model 1873. Probably a poor example to use as it is too far gone to save but it's the only original part here that hasn't either been circular filed or sold. It is a good candidate to illustrate that this process works and is a viable option for any classic that has value and is worth saving.

The red circle indicates the section that this repair will focus on ...



Closeup ...



Draw filed and stoned ... deepest pits remaining ...



Small ball bur used to clean out crud and rust ... the laser does a pretty good job at blasting out the rust and crud but physically cleaning them out is always safe.



Holes filled using laser and mild steel wire. Pulse set to low and Laser intensity set to lowest setting then increased to point where it melts. Beam can also be widened to smooth shallow pits and smooth filled areas. Blue circle indicates a deep pit that took a lot of metal and I ran out of wire. The pit may have been a tiny inclusion that opened up to corrosion as this part was likely made prior or during Winchester's transition to open hearth steel and hence of a lesser quality.



Draw filed and stoned to 600grit then hit with 800 grit wet/dry wrapped on a block. The deep pit still evident at the top makes a good reference point. A few more blasts with the laser and filler and it would be gone as now would also be a good time to fill or smooth any remaining imperfections.



Total lasering time was about 15 minutes. There's also a short video of the laser in action which will likely end up on my web site along with a more thorough description of this illustration as it's doubtful this will ever make the tips archive.

All the best .... Chris
 
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JJ Roberts

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Chris,That was some nasty looking pitting,but you did a really nice job restoring the old 73 and I can't wait to see it engraved,keep up the good work.J.J.
 

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