Question: Attempt to innovate engraving designs [photo]

Arnaud Van Tilburgh

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In order trying to innovate on engraving designs, here is an example of a single line engraving. The design is a Pablo Picasso that my dad bought when I was a kid and always had my attention.

Picasso is one of those artists that are able to add form with a single line. We engravers always try to give form and depth by shading.
It is something that is on my mind for some time, and sure I will engrave this one in a few minutes.

I have Lee’s “Art and Design Fundamentalsâ€￾ and sure one of my favourite books on design. A lot of attention in the book is on “budgetâ€￾.

So I was thinking, if I’m able to draw a design like this one, just minimal lines, should it be low budget? I think not.

In my opinion, and that is why I want to share this, a design does not has to be complicated to look like a must have one.
Yes I know, my name is not Picasso, but Arnaud


What do you think?

 

Barry Lee Hands

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Hi Arnaud,
A good example of economy of line that is quite effective , I think that a design like that would go over well in jewelry engraving.

Picasso, as I am sure you know , was a classicly trained artist who developed a recognizable style, by stripping the usual stuff out of his work and incorporating some of the cubist ideas of his contemporaries.

I read somewhere that when he painted " Le Demoiselles d'Auvignon" he was too shy to show it to anyone as he was afraid he would be ridiculed, and left it in the back of his room covered with a tarp for weeks before he got up the courage to reveal it.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...uJ4vTiALCoYTaAg&sqi=2&ved=0CF4Q9QEwAQ&dur=390
He then went on to produce thousands of pieces along the same lines and became one of the most commercially successful artist of his time.

To create an innovative engraving style, I recommend thinking of simplicity and self similarity of style in a body of work.
This way the style becomes recognizable.

Decades ago the gunmaker Ferlib in Brescia created a Picasso gun. It was done by a name engraver, It recieved excellent press, is in a number of books, and as I recall , it remained unsold for many years.
It is a difficult line to walk, coming up with something that is recognizable as Art, that is ,familiar as being inside the "structure" of Art, that does need to obviously show its influences.
If the work looks too much like someone else's, it may lack interest to collectors, because they can just go out and collect the originals.
I am sure you are using this as an example and do not intend to engrave like Picasso.

Your points are well taken, and one well placed line is worth a thousand.
 
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Arnaud Van Tilburgh

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Barry, thanks for your input on this one. Yes it is not my intention to engrave Picasso look a likes. This is an example to illustrate my thoughts.
If I understand you well, you are making a difference between gun engraving and jewellery.
I understand that a Picasso design is not something a “hunter” would enjoy having on his H&H, only perhaps if it was done by the master himself.
But as engraving in a way is just design on a metal canvas, to me it could be anything, but probably not on a gun, yet.

So there is nothing wrong with the classic Acanthus we for 90% try to reinvent every time, but perhaps some innovations could help to keep the Art of engraving a live for next generations.

And I do not know that much about the history behind engraving, but as far as I know, it was just a way to make a copper plate that could be printed.

arnaud
 
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Chujybear

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I quite like it. The sublime line. A lack of inspiration, or even a lack of skill (to the unnatiated eye) can be burried in complexity..
There is no hiding in a desighn like that.
 

Arnaud Van Tilburgh

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Ok guys, seems innovating engraving designs is not that hot by now. But I think and hope it will be soon.
Nothing wrong with the old crocodile designers, but I’m convinced engraving needs new input on design.

arandu
 

Sam

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Just being honest here...I don't care for it all that much. I'm not saying it's not good...just not the kind of art I'm attracted to. It leaves me wishing for more. :confused:
 

tundratrekers@mtaonline.n

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Push on Arnaud!

I think you are speaking true to the artist within yourself.

If your customers like it,they will pay the bill.

While all the engravings shown here look good, I think most are being influenced by the same masters,whether by books,photos,or training.

Which,in my opinion,is creating an homogenous feeling to the engraving,as if the pool to draw water from is getting shallow.

I also think there is to much computer use going on these days,and it shows in the finished works,as being " to mechanical,to line perfect",and taking the humanness out of it.


Seems only a few are willing to go outside the historically accepted forms and motifs.mike
 
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Andrew Biggs

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The simple line can be a wonderful thing...................but it depends on who does it, the context that it's presented in and the medium it's done on. There can also sometimes be a cultural element involved as well.

Seeing it is Picasso that did it lends weight to the design but without knowing that, you could be mistaken in the belief that it was the random scribbling of a child. Without knowing who the artist was and see it hanging in a gallery, you would probably look at it and think it was very artistic because of the environment it is in. But take it out of that context and it becomes something else.

The Japanese are masters of the seemingly simple and sublime. They can make a single brush stroke look stunning. But would that simplicity translate to an engraving? You only have to look at some of the work done by Jim Kelso to see that the answer is plainly, yes, it can. But it is a lot more than just the design. It's also the technique and the tradition plus the story behind it that makes it fascinating, artistic and beautiful at the same time.

It's a lot more than just a new engraving style because the style has been around since man first drew on cave walls. It is context, medium and culture.

But hey, like everything, there is only one way to find out and that is by actually doing it.

Cheers
Andrew
 

Arnaud Van Tilburgh

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Well I will engrave this one on a zippo lighter, sign it with Piscasso's signature and we will see.
And in a way it isn't hat different to engrave as the "Hello Kitty" I already sold 5 times at 120 euro /piece.
Yes I know, hello kitty is copyright, but who else than we engravers are able to make a pendant for the little girls?

arnaud



 
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Jim Kelso

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Interesting topic Arnaud, and thanks for the hat-tip Andrew. The Japanese have a genre of engraving based on emulating ink-brush strokes. Sometimes it is quite simple and some more elaborate. It is somewhat related to bright-cut and I’m not sure if this fits in your concept Arnaud or if you are thinking of only narrow uniform lines.

Katakiri-bori as it is called is cut with a flat chisel and the line width can vary from quite narrow to quite wide by healing the chisel over dramatically(or not). This gives something of the effect of a calligraphic type brush that can paint a line varying from very thin to quite wide. Shading is achieved by widening the lines, along with visible hammer strokes within the lines, rather than parallel shading as in the west.

Here are four photos of excellent work of this type.
1) a kashira(sword handle cap) by Kano Natsuo
2) a small kozuka knife handle engraved by Kano Natsuo
3a & 3b) an Imperial presentation vase, early 20th century engraved by Kobayashi Kako and raised from pure silver sheet by Hiraka Soko. The peony does not have much shading and yet somehow conveys much form and depth. The plum branch shows clearly how the hammer strokes add texture and character. This is more elaborate than maybe you are driving at but the close-up of the plum branch gives an idea of a simpler approach.
(Vase photos courtesy Kagedo Gallery)

I think that with the ingenuity of engravers as a whole there is opportunity to express a lot of beauty with this style that is not necessarily Japanesque.

NatsuoKojiriweb.jpg NatsuoPeonyKataweb.jpg Katatkiriweb copy.jpg katakirivaseweb.jpg
 
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Arnaud Van Tilburgh

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Thanks Jim and sure it fits in this concept idea. I just know little about Japanese Art, but it seems worth to study it.
The examples you show here, yes they look simple, but I know they are not. In Japanese art it is not about coincidence. As far as I know they think first about all the details to have them in perfect balance.
So while I’m exploring other ideas technique and forms, this is something to consider as well, not copying it, but taking it in my library of knowledge.

arnaud
 

Paulie

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:tiphat: Arnaud, you 've got an interesting point there! Although I never was a big admirer of Picasso's abstract period. I prefer his early works (before it all turned cubist/simplistic) but that 's just 'personal taste', as I never liked cubist works from any other known artist, for much of their stuff it looks like one doesn't need any skills! OK maybe I 'm wrong, also because time proved they often had great succes with abstract and minimalistic 'art'. To me the rich & natural ornamental style goes much better for engravings, perhaps it 's all about the kind of 'canvas' that has to be decorated (just my 2 cents folks;)). Greetings, Paulie:beerchug:
 

dave gibson

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Hi Arnud, I'm with you, I like seeing some fresh imagery in engraving. As I'm still a beginner I focus on traditional scroll patterns because I feel an engraver has to have skill in scroll work and it is still my favorite. When I see work by Vlastik Petak and Houdek Roman, I drool. I wish more engravers would just break away and do what comes to mind.I've said it before that too many engravers overdo their work, tiny scrolls that can only be seen with magnification. It's like they're servicing their own egos and not the desires of the customer. I've always prefered a simpler, easy to read design over super detailed , hyper realism. I find stylized designs easier on the eye and more fun to look at. I can do with out Picasso however......... just my opinion. ,,,DG
 

Aventuraal

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The ability to execute an image using a single line is an example of a highly refined draftsman's hand coupled to an sensitive eye, or a bit of really random luck. That line can often capture what in art school is known as "gesture", an implication of motion, or impending motion. I think it goes to an increased sense of design and awareness of the real minimalist requirements to stoke someone's imagination. Like poetry, the suggestion is enough to jumpstart the imagination of the viewer, rather than the book, chapter and verse of the detailed description. Like poetry, an acquired taste. I find the extraordinary fantasy work by Torcoli intriguing, interesting, and yet, still within the traditions of classical engraving. You raise the question of where to go next in this art form, since change is inevitable, and clinging dogmatically to the past is limiting, and, eventually, fails.
I think everyone involved needs to be thinking about where they are going, not just hanging on to the past. You have to know the traditions in order to escape them, but you need not be bound by them.
 

Paulie

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:tiphat:Hi Arnaud, I was just thinking about your thread on innovating engraving styles and I suddenly remembered that this idea was not really 'new under the sun':rolleyes: When checking out Fega on facebook I noticed a very innovative engraving design which I believe that I've seen earlier here on the Cafe. This engraving style is something really different :thumbsup:& I like it more than Picasso (for engraving) of course. Just my personal taste:cool: http://www.fega.com/mp/hoechst/side4web_1.jpg Greetings, Paulie:beerchug:
 

DiamondCactus

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:tiphat:Hi Arnaud, I was just thinking about your thread on innovating engraving styles and I suddenly remembered that this idea was not really 'new under the sun':rolleyes: When checking out Fega on facebook I noticed a very innovative engraving design which I believe that I've seen earlier here on the Cafe. This engraving style is something really different :thumbsup:& I like it more than Picasso (for engraving) of course. Just my personal taste:cool: http://www.fega.com/mp/hoechst/side4web_1.jpg Greetings, Paulie:beerchug:

love this gun, now that is what I am talking about, I want to do my 1911 like this.
 

Martin Strolz

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Why not doing something truly contemporary... :cool: I took a few minutes of time to create a sample.
...multi-colored precious metal inlay might not be the best way to execute such ideas... too expensive and noble, probably hard to sell tough.

Martin

Grafitti from:http://www.life-go.de/artikel/10/print10.html
 

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Arnaud Van Tilburgh

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Martin, I don't know much about selling guns or gun engravings. So yes could be hard to sell, but perhaps not. I think no one ever tried that, and that is exactly the point I try to make.

Thanks all for your ideas on this.
And no one mentioned Andrew's designs yet, but in a way that too does look different in design, not really classic scrolls.



So here is another Picasso, and besides that Andrew's shows some Maori style, to me they both have something in common.




arnaud
 
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