Design, cutting, and shading exercise #2 by Mitch Moschetti

bthomas

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Gary and mrthe thanks for the encouragement but this one did not pop for me.

My first attempt I crowded finer lines in this scale. But my fines line effort while it made the leaf dark did not achieve any visual depth/graduation.

So very finer lines very closely spaced were not working for me. Perhaps the answer is the finer lines but with exagerated white space between sections?

Anyway my prior fine line attempt was FLAT to my eye (even w reading glasses which are mandatory for me). So I filed them off and recut images shown that use fewer lines but mix several deep and fine lines trying to get something viewable naked eye but which not appear FLAT.

Overall I just struglled to juggle available space on individual leaf elements.

As I was cutting this i was thinking something this small, to be delicate in appearance, should perhaps be done in a bulino dot/pick techinique so by varying the very small dots you can more easily achieve graduation of color?
 

Arnaud Van Tilburgh

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OK, some are nice attempts, and I suppose all tried the best they can. but I really wasn’t knocked out of my shoes by any.
So this probably means trying harder.

arnaud
 

mrthe

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This excercise i think is more difficult than the first one, i haven't had the time to make it yet,but i have to say that i have see very goods attemps,and some ones very very beautyfull (well the one of Sam i have to say that is outstanding) all the way Arnaud i think that the purpose of this posts is not generate in the People a WOW or knocked out of our shoes, i thing that is a way, a great way and very usefull way of learning a little more,a great exercise for us (and are Free classes from greats engravers) from the points of view of ours folks in the forum in how we can make the same but in differents ways.
I have only say thanks to all the folks that have make this plate and have take his time to show to us his work,for me ,is very helpfull ;)
 

Arnaud Van Tilburgh

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Yes I know mrthe, it is not about the WOW factor only. but it is just a way to express my impression when looking at the different tries.
So it is just my way to encourage every one to try better, and of course respecting all levels.
So sorry if I'm misunderstood not having the WOW feel.
It is just that the simple things have the most challenge.

arnaud
 

mrthe

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I have to say that i have try to make some design and variation of this leaf,that appeare simple ,but not,expecially to shade it,i'm with you " the simple things have the most challenge" all the way don't worry i know that you only want encourage every one in try to make it better,is more easy say,good! ,very nice! or well done,that say a constructive critique, i appreciate it too very much,we need it too.
 

Arnaud Van Tilburgh

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Ok I agree with mrthe, My " there is no Wow" was meant to encourage, but saying " All good attempts you did here" seems to be more friendly. I will remember that mrthe, thanks for the lesson.

arnaud
 

Sam

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This exercise is definitely more difficult than scroll. I know I need practice with it just like everyone else.
 

mitch

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if i may add a note of instruction & encouragement here... when i suggested folks should "color outside the lines" and feel free to play with the design, I'm afraid i inadvertently gave many the idea that they had to and that it would somehow be cheating or falling short of the full intent of the exercise to adhere closely to the outline as drawn. that is definitely NOT the case. there are quite literally an infinite number of beautiful variations one could create while barely straying from the pre-drawn outline at all.

perhaps some of you who are struggling or agonizing over this would be more comfortable gracefully filling in the original silhouette with some rolled over leaf edges, creases/puckers, etc., and the appropriate shading to render contours & depth, without worrying about completely reinventing the basic leaf form. take a good look at what Sam did to the main 'angel wing' leaf- he added some elegant detail & shading without changing the outline hardly at all. (also note how he added interest by making it fairly asymmetrical.)

relax & allow yourselves to take full advantage of the form i've already drawn, with its curves & proportions all worked out for you. don't feel like you have to create the ultimate acanthus leaf from scratch. there is PLENTY to occupy your creative inclinations just filling in & tweaking the one i provided.

Note- the reason i'm sitting this one out is because i could quite literally sit down with a big stack of copies of my outline & a pencil and never draw the same leaf twice. sure, i'd reuse/recycle certain elements & styles, but i could sketch for days on end without repeating a complete design. i could throw out hundreds of possibilities, but don't want to unduly influence anyone's creative process.
 

g.rohrbaugh

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I have to agree with Arnauld and Mrthe on this one. It's not about the WOW factor and for me it's learning how to do things in a different way. I've done one of these and have another one in the works to pass on. I do enjoy these exercises and see what everyone brings to the table. You can always learn something!
Gary
 

Red Green

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Hello, I am in need of help.

I have followed this thread from its beginning and began a design. I abandoned the design when I realized I had no idea what the design constrains were, I am a habitual line stepper but I want to stay in the park. I thought I may be able to create a design and convert it into something that looks closer to the original outlines, but I am unable to start knowing I have no way of knowing if I’m inside the limits or way outside the style as I am easily distracted. Would someone be kind enough to point out some completed designs or finished engravings generally considered masterwork for study and help me understand what the expected limits are in this style as applied to engraving?

Bob
 

mitch

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Hi Bob-

(Are you the real Red Green? I love that guy! My favorite was the hand crank to power window conversion with the cordless drill.)

Getting back to your question... First of all, don't worry about 'The Rules'. Technically there may be some, but there's no penalty for violating them anyway. To clarify the intent of this exercise, i wanted to supply a well-proportioned, gracefully curved, nearly universal basic silhouette for the ubiquitous 'angel wing' leaf form that would allow everyone to fill it in/flesh it out without having to build the main structure first.

The only real rule is that the overall outline of your design should bear a reasonable resemblance to the one i supplied in the first post of this thread. I'm afraid some folks have taken it upon themselves to completely reinvent the entire leaf from scratch and have come up with designs that bear virtually no resemblance whatsoever to the original exercise outline. This is not a heinous crime (and can be good practice in its own right), but defeats the purpose of the lesson. It sounds like you're interested in keeping to the spirit of the exercise, so i would advise you to revisit my original instructions & design suggestions in the first introductory post. Note how those few minor elements I drew tend to slightly modify the outline, while clearly maintaining the recognizable overall form.

I apologize to everyone struggling with this. The more I think about it, perhaps the infinite possibilities contained in this 'simple' form made this far more complicated than i'd intended. in fact, if i were to teach a class on this form (and who knows, maybe i will some day) i would probably break it into steps, from little or no basic modifications to the form and very straightforward shading, advancing to complex versions executed in several techniques from typical line shading to full relief-sculpting. this process has accidentally become a huge learning experience for me, too!

in any event, i sincerely hope that everyone who hasn't posted their efforts are still utilizing the design for their own private practice, whether you share it with the rest of the class or not.
 

Red Green

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Hey Mitch,

No, I’m not the TV guy Red Green but I join you in appreciating his humor. Your reply does put some definite constraints on the design, thank you. The form almost defies the flowing arabesque style does it not? I have noted that Master Hands has used this element in many of his works, he seems to favor it as a running leave in a open field. I will get back to the design and see if I can find my way in it.

Thanks,
Bob
 
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Arnaud Van Tilburgh

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Another rainy Sunday over here, so time for some shading practising.

I agree that this is a quite complicated design to start from, at least it is for me.

arnaud


 

mrthe

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Toc toc...first comment hehehe,Arnaud i like very much how you have shaded the design and the changes that have you make,but if i can give you a personal opinion,i have some dudes in the overlapping of the two big leafs,the upper one and the one in the left,i think that make a strange effect ,but is only my opinion,all the way great work ,like you say this design is complicated ;)
 

mitch

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yeah, Arnaud- my comment is to quit playing with your computer and pick up a graver & a piece of metal! the design is ok, now let's see the real thing. :beatup:
 

Arnaud Van Tilburgh

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Ok thanks mrthe and Mitch.
I will play with a graver soon, but not being able to show the real thing, as it still will be only a photo.

arnaud
 

mitch

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ok, a photo of the real thing will suffice for our purposes... :rolleyes:
 

Red Green

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Hello,

I’ve sketched out a leaf near the original shape but as you can see it is not stylized for engraving, is it possible to get a viable result if I were to shade this line and crosshatched? If the drawing is unacceptable for use as an outline what could be done to change the drawing to make it workable?




Bob
 

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