A total lack of ethics.....

FANCYGUN

~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Joined
Nov 10, 2006
Messages
1,840
Location
West Grove, PA
While browsing an online web site I noticed a engraved knife for sale. Upon closer examination to my dismay and disgust, I noticed that the engraver flat out copied a knife that I engraved a number of years ago for Barrett/Smythe. I called the lister of the knife who I believe is also the engraver and got an answering machine. I will be very surprised if he calls me back. Take a look for yourself and see if I am wrong.

:mad::mad::mad::no::no:
 

Attachments

  • BarretteSmythe cape buffalo Horn folder.jpg
    BarretteSmythe cape buffalo Horn folder.jpg
    57.8 KB · Views: 533
  • 100121407-3-L.jpg
    100121407-3-L.jpg
    81 KB · Views: 531
  • 100121407-2-L.jpg
    100121407-2-L.jpg
    49.9 KB · Views: 512

Sam

Chief Administrator & Benevolent Dictator
Staff member
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Messages
10,490
Location
Covington, Louisiana
Sure looks like a copy to me, Marty :(

I found an engraver who had taken my designs from a photo of an engraved tie clasp on my website and was using them to decorate HIS site. When I confronted him about it he claimed he'd gotten the design from a free clipart website, but of course couldn't remember where. I never bought the lame story and he removed it.
 

Doc Mark

~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Joined
Nov 16, 2006
Messages
1,284
Location
Hampton, Virginia
Sho' nuf looks like your design. Where could they get the exact same knife profile? Is it a common brand or design? I can't see the small pictures too well, so couldn't study any details. Could it actually BE your knife being sold by someone unaware of it's real value?
 

rayf24

Elite Cafe Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2010
Messages
574
Location
united kingdom
I just seen your post and doc marks thourght that it maybe the original so I had a look and scaled both images the same size and zoom up yes its a copy but do take heart its a very crappy one at that the scene with buffs is of low quality against yours and as you said not ethical. luck its not for china there could have been thousands more (sorry for the joke) the old saying comes to mind brake a leg.
:mad::beatup:
ray
 

FANCYGUN

~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Joined
Nov 10, 2006
Messages
1,840
Location
West Grove, PA
I remember that incident you had with your design Sam.
Doc. The knife that I engraved was a stainless folder by Jesse Horn. The little ring on the back of the knife that was copied was actually a removable gold toothpick. In this copy it looks like it is one piece part of the knife. So it is not the same knife that I engraved. It's funny how you know and recognize your own work intimately. It will be interesting to hear what this person has to say if he returns my call.
 

FANCYGUN

~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Joined
Nov 10, 2006
Messages
1,840
Location
West Grove, PA
Yeah Ray
The quality doesn't look very good. Knife or the engraving. Crap.I hope he didnt sign my name to it in chinese :thinking:
 

FANCYGUN

~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Joined
Nov 10, 2006
Messages
1,840
Location
West Grove, PA
Interesting.he has removed his for sale posting for the knife on Guns International but still hasn't had the cahones to return my phone call.......

SamW.. with my mixed spanish,greek,turkish and Jewish heritage...grew up in the BRONX.. so of course it can be translated in to Chinese. ;)
 

FANCYGUN

~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Joined
Nov 10, 2006
Messages
1,840
Location
West Grove, PA
Andrew...............
Bleeping and $%##8&*** in one of my sedate messages?????????? nah.. I'm like a fluffy puddy tat... OK so I also have sharp teeth
;)
 

Sam

Chief Administrator & Benevolent Dictator
Staff member
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Messages
10,490
Location
Covington, Louisiana
Marty: Several years ago I saw a photo of an engraved knife in a Japanese knife magazine what was an absolute clone of a knife I engraved. No idea who did it. :mad:
 

rayf24

Elite Cafe Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2010
Messages
574
Location
united kingdom
Fancygun
If it was on the shopping channel as christopher has posted then it must be from china and that would then make the total value of this knockoff no maore than than 99cents fore the knife and maybe (I'll go over the top here ) $1.00 for engraving so that only comes to $1.99 plus tax
I think christopher miss type it at $99 but then we could all start copying it buy the chinese knives for 99cents laser them for a $1 and sell for $99 sounds like a good markup to me and we could then pay fancygun a fee say 2% after costs this is getting better all the time what do you think
:rolleyes: ;) :biggrin:
 

K Frei

Elite Cafe Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2011
Messages
170
Location
St. George Utah
-Christopher-Malouf
I'm dumb some times,but curious. Does the screenshot you took literally admit that the engraving is a knock off, or is that something you've added? K Frei
 

FANCYGUN

~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Joined
Nov 10, 2006
Messages
1,840
Location
West Grove, PA
Hey Chris.........thats a great page you put together with the knife. Glad you posted it so I an visualyze it better from what you were tellling me on the phone last night. Sorry I had to cut things short when my sister called.

Now to get serious for a minute or two. We have discussed copying anothers work many times here on the forum. I have also talked about this for many years as an art teacher with my students. And yes I have also given my students projects to copy and artist work. Now these are all exercises to enhance ones visual awareness and skills. These are projects not finished works.
Weather we care to admit it or not, we all copy to some extent. When we see something we admire we try to emulate it. However what we do is take the elements we like and see how we can alter this into our own styles and abilities. This is called "working from" or "using". We do not direct copy line for line, design for design and try and pass it off as our own work. When we do this we are telling others we are not a good artist or craftsman as we are not able to visualize and design something. As we all know this is the most demanding challenging part of what we do. Heck.it's also the most fun part. We do not copy someone elses visions and pass it off as our own :no::no::no:

OK so thats my early morning halfway through my first cup of coffee ramblings.
 

jerrywh

~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
1,032
Location
Baker City , Oregon
While browsing an online web site I noticed a engraved knife for sale. Upon closer examination to my dismay and disgust, I noticed that the engraver flat out copied a knife that I engraved a number of years ago for Barrett/Smythe. I called the lister of the knife who I believe is also the engraver and got an answering machine. I will be very surprised if he calls me back. Take a look for yourself and see if I am wrong.

:mad::mad::mad::no::no:

Marty. I would go after this guy. That is totally BS. No ethics should have a price.
 

D.M.

Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2007
Messages
88
Location
Austin, MN
I would go after ANY trading company (online or not) that sells the counterfit product. This one crook may make 10 copies. The traders sell hundreds or more. If you can pinch their butt you wull do two good things. You can get some reimbursment and you may stop the crooks. I've heard that some layers will take the case for the part of the reimbursment payment. That might me worth to try.
 

Sam

Chief Administrator & Benevolent Dictator
Staff member
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Messages
10,490
Location
Covington, Louisiana
Well, going after something like this is going after a huge waste of time and money. It's one thing if it's a counterfeit, which we don't know if it is or not (do we?). If the guy signed Marty's name that's one thing. If he copied his design that's another. In a case like this you have to prove that it's hurt you monetarily or damaged your reputation/business, etc. I'm not a lawyer but that's my understanding. Basically you call the fellow onto the carpet and let him know you're unhappy with what he's done, and that'll probably be a good lesson learned and a mistake he's unlikely to repeat. You have to also consider that the engraver might be clueless as to what's right or wrong when it comes to copying. I think Marty's done about all he can do.
 

DakotaDocMartin

~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Joined
Oct 15, 2007
Messages
1,835
Location
Grand Forks, ND
Even if the work is copyrighted... a copyright is only as good as your ability to defend it in court (high priced lawyers and lots of money to spend). Been there, done that. :eek:
 
Top