Help, please: Suggestion to handle some spaces between leaves? (English style scroll)

RedfordTrails

Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2011
Messages
57
Hi
Just looking for advice on how I should handle the background spaces between my outer leaves on this design. I've never drawn or engraved anything like this before and got my self a bit stuck.

I want the design to be diamond shape but not have a sharp outlined boarder.

The RED arrows in the photo indicate the areas I'm not sure what I should do with.

The GREEN arrow shows a spot where I tried removing the background with progressive strokes of my 120.

I'm thinking of using the green arrow method to get the background out, but how could I feather the outside to make it look right?

Oh also I have a pretty sweet slip going right across the middle of my watch... we wont talk about how that got there... but I'm planning on doing my best to hide it with shading. Suggestions on hiding that beast would be appreciated as well.

Thanks in advance. :bow:
 

K Frei

Elite Cafe Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2011
Messages
170
Location
St. George Utah
I am responding for two reasons one i think you are heading in a good direction, with the 120, and two i sometime have trouble getting a response when i ask for help... i think that it depends on when you post or something. kep in mind that i also am a junior member, and my eye is better than my ability at this point, so you can take my suggestion with a grain of salt it you wish. what i would try, is to remove my background but let my scroll extend past where i've removed; then see how it looks. this will give you a opportunity to check your result before you have cut past the point of no return, and let your outer edge not have to be ridged. See what you think, but that is my only idea. others may say i'm wrong. K Frei
 

RedfordTrails

Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2011
Messages
57
Thanks. That just re-affirms what I was thinking of doing. Probly break the chips off in a rugged way shy of the ends of the leaves. If that doest look good, I'll cap the ends of those spots nice and round, still shy of the end point.... maybe with a flat or run in with a carbide ball bur. But I won't be able to get back to my bench for a while so if you think of something else let me know.

What do you think about fine line shading starting outside and terminating inside?
 

Kevin Scott

Elite Cafe Member
Joined
May 17, 2009
Messages
241
Location
Philadelphia, Pa, USA
Redfordtrails, Not qualified to help you with your two questions. But I noticed that you are practicing on a worn out GF pocket watch case.
That is what I have mostly practicing on, and I think it is one of the reasons for my slow progress. Recently practiced on some mild steel plates and was shocked how much easier is was than gold filled. Less point breakage, nicer cutting, much less chance of slipping. And I only do push power.
The screwback pocket watch cases seem harder-denser than the wrist watch cases, or hinged pocket watch cases. I guess is has to do with the way they are stamped and work hardened. Seems to be alot of variety on how gold filled cuts and feels.
Your cutting looks good to me but I think you will progress faster with less frustration by only practicing with the same type of metal until you get a handle on how the graver behaves etc. When learning, I believe in keeping variables to a minimum.
Kevin Scott
 

mitch

~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Joined
Jul 23, 2007
Messages
2,635
Hi Red-

You find yourself in trouble because of your basic layout. You've got three scrolls- the big one lies partially next to the borders, another that is completely against the borders, and the third doesn't touch the borders at all. This leaves very inconsistent areas surrounding them- some stretches need a lot of fill-in out to the border, some a little, some none at all.

My personal design philosophy with fine scroll (note: i'm getting away from referring to it as "English", because mine bears only a superficial resemblance to how they do it) is if the scrolls aren't starting from a hard cut border line, then they need space left around them away from a 'soft' border, to allow room for the 'feathers'. There's a lot more to figuring out where the scrolls lies relative to the invisible border, but this should give you the basic idea. Here's couple (bad) photos to illustrate the concept:
 

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RedfordTrails

Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2011
Messages
57
Thanks for the input. Yeah the design is shakey for sure. I see how having the scrolls up against the edge is taking away from it's potential. I didn't even realize it before. There is no room to apply the affect I was looking for properly and there is a complete lack of consistency in the leaves. Great advice! The examples illustrated your points well too!

Also a good tip about sticking with one metal to get a feel for what these tools can do.
:chip:
 

RedfordTrails

Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2011
Messages
57
Everything basically worked out. It's an overall pleasing looking design and the non-engraving community thinks it looks great! I could sure use more input on what is wrong with it though. I work at a jewelry store and people there know their bling. But they look at this and just see sparkly leaves and think it's awesome. There's more than just bright cut foliage here people... any ways I'm looking to make corrections and would appreciated some pin point criticism.
 
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