Help, please: Printer Tranfers by Acetone

RedfordTrails

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Sorry to beat a dead horse. I know this topic has been covered, and I read a handful of articles before I began my attempts. I am 1 for 50 on results I am happy with, so I came back here to start a thread that may answer my questions and help other new engravers.


Surface Prep?
So far a 2K grit wet sand paper has given me the best results. I've tried soap and water clean, acetone clean, and a wax covered surface. None had any consistency. The sanded seemed the best. Obviously a poor choice though because it dictates your finish.

Printer?
It seems well known a LASER jet printer is needed. I bought a HP Laser Jet P1102w. As of now my assumption is this is my problem, and I will probably purchase a printer with known transfer capabilities. However, some of my results showed the print could transfer, so I'm not certain this is my problem.

Paper?
I've used regular printer paper and tracing paper. Tracing paper seems to repel the acetone and was useless. The regular paper had no consistency but gave me a few decent transfers.

Solevent?
I'm using Acetone I used it with success at two different schools, this is probably not my problem.

Press and Dry Duration?
I experimented with different saturations from just a quick rub to a full 3 minuet saturation. I experimented with different burnishing, pressing, and rubbing. I also experimented with different dry times. What works here?

I believe that covers the elements involved in the process. I've seen this done with little or no frustration and I've done it myself 5 years ago when I first entered the jewelry business and had no problems. I've been working hard to set up an engraving studio and was awestruck when I was not getting good transfers as I had set my studio up assuming these would come out fine. Any answers to help we the novice engravers would be greatly appreciated.

 
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qndrgnsdd

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I'm not sure what a laser JET is, but I have used a variety of laser printers, the thing I look for is they have to use dry toner, not ink. dry toner is a mixture of carbon and carnuba wax, the acetone dissolves the carnuba wax causing the transfer to take place. as long as the metal is clean and flat you should have no problem with the right print.
 

RedfordTrails

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If wikipedia is right then there is no difference between Laser and Laser Jet printers. My particular printer does take a TONER cartridge and by definition should be a dry powder.

Is is possible that some Toner/Printers will work some wont due to different toner composition?
 

unclejim1955

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I'm with Dave. The ink jet on film works on any finish because the Dammar creates the bond surface and the film being almost clear lets you see better where you are placing the transfer.
 

monk

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i just use a junky old hp, set to black only. this will transfer for me with no chemicals, ointments or unguents. it will also work on colored ( light ones ) sharpie markers. it generally will work for me on any hard, smoothe surface, including glass. you want your output to be black only. :(
 

fegarex

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I thought all HP laser printers worked but perhaps there are some that don't. You just need to moisten the paper and not "soak" it. Plain paper and just clean the metal with acetone.
Unlike some others I have given up on the ink jet method. Too much messing with different brands of printers, different transperencies, dried ink cartridges, different varnish mixes and such. It just became way too much work for me.
Another option is printing on baking parchment paper/laser printer and using just about anything tacky on the metal.
 

Sam

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The only LASER printers I've heard of that don't work for transfers are Brother brand. I suppose it's possible that that printer's toner is different than other HPs.

What I see on the brass plate is certainly acceptable and is working so it seems like it should work for everything. For a practice plate a clean surface is all that's needed. You don't need to sand but it certainly won't hurt.

All I do is moisten a paper towel with acetone and wipe the paper gently. Within 2-3 seconds it's dry and ready to remove. Longer saturations aren't necessary and could be part of your problem. I like to get my paper towel just moist enough that I can press down on the back of the paper to make sure it has good contact with the metal. If it's too wet then it smears and runs. I use normal computer paper.

Make sure you're using acetone from the hardware store and not nail polish remover. I tried that in a pinch once and it did not work, although it's supposed to contain acetone. I suspect it's greatly diluted.
 

Willem Parel

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Make sure you're using acetone from the hardware store and not nail polish remover. I tried that in a pinch once and it did not work, although it's supposed to contain acetone. I suspect it's greatly diluted.

Even with nail polish remover you can have different experience then, I used it several weeks ago with very good result.
 

RedfordTrails

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great tips! Tried some less saturated and hard pressed attempts with acetone. Results were better but still not amazing.

Should I try adding the Damar Varnish into my equation? Apply, let it tack, and do everything else just the way I have been? Or would the acetone just thin it and render it useless?
 

GTJC460

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I have that exact printer and get good transfers. It's usually a faint image (especially on steel practice plates) but it's still visible and usable. Also it doesn't rub off easily

You've got to let it dry before removing the paper.
 

Sandy

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About a year ago I bought a Cannon Imageclass D320 copy machine (a dry toner system). I think it was $135 from Staples. The extra toner cartridge I bought with the machine cost more then the machine (3000 copies at 100% coverage). The cartridge that came with it said that it had toner for 75 copies. I am currently on copy 326 with the sample cartridge. It works great with the acetone transfer method.
Sandy
 

fegarex

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No Damar varish with the acetone. I would try another transfer. Perhaps the ones you are using are too light.
You should get good clean results with what you have. The steel practice plates are "grainy" and may not transfer as well as the brass but still should be better than what you have.
 

mitch

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i do it much the same as Sam (ok, i use a Q-Tip instead of a paper towel for the acetone). i give it a quick swab to dampen the paper just enough to clearly see the artwork thru the paper momentarily as it becomes translucent/transparent and push it down with my thumb for a couple seconds to ensure good contact over the entire surface. let it dry for maybe a minute or so and peel it off. if it's not clear enough i clean it all off and do it again.
 

Beathard

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My Kyocera color copier at work works great for the transfers as well. Anyone know if it will work on glass?
 

KCSteve

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I was going to say that my color HP laser works great - even with color (in my limited tests). I normally just use plain paper but I've gotten baking parchment to work with this one. My old (and I mean old) printer would only work with parchment if I cut a sheet and fed it by itself - it couldn't get hot enough to stick it to parchment taped over another sheet like the new one will.

With a plain paper transfer I wet a paper towel and daub the back of the paper to make it translucent. I have better luck if I don't let it dry completely - when I do that the paper sometimes sticks.

With parchment I use a Damar or other 'sticky' surface treatment and then just rub the back of the parchment - it has such a light grip on the toner it's easily pulled off by the sticky stuff. But since the regular method works so well I seldom go to the bother of using parchment - pretty much just when I want a more detailed transfer and/or placement is critical (since the parchment is translucent it's easier to place the image).
 

RedfordTrails

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Ok my results are getting better. Still I'd like to see the transfer sharper and looking more like it does on the paper. Here's where I'm at.

Surface Prep
Wash with acetone and let dry.

Printer
Seems any printer using TONER will be fine. Toner by definition is a powdered substance so if your printer uses toner it SHOULD work. My printer uses toner and I now know it is not the problem.

Solvent
Acetone

Press and Dry duration
I tape my transfer on one corner, just for a bit of security that it will not move. The acetone eats the tape so don't get it in the way of your wipe. Taking the advice of other in this post I have now started splashing my paper towel just once from the can of acetone. I then hold my one corner taped paper down with one hand, and wipe firmly with the other. My saturation is just so that I can clearly see the image on the other side. I then toss my towel and use both hands to keep pressure down on the image while it drys. I have found peeling just before it is totally dry gives better results. Once totally dry the toner seems to re-adhere to the paper and tears off the metal.

Changes from failure to now
Washing the plate with acetone and letting dry and my above press and duration method.

So here's some of what I did today. Should I be getting better results than this? These were fairly consistent. 3 out of 5 were something I would attempt to cut.
 

mitch

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from my experience, that's about as sharp as it's gonna get. we're talking dissolving wax with acetone- it's gonna bleed a little no matter how you do it. i find that the less fine detail i can live without in the transfer, the better. get the main construction lines and call it good.
 

Beathard

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In the 1800s they developed a technique that by the use of a silver coating on the metal and through a Collodion emulsion process received photographic results. No seriously, less detail is better.
 

Douglas

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I use the HP P1102 and It works great for all the processes described in this thread. The one thing I found in my research on laser printers is the heat setting may vary from machine to machine and the heat set the toner. Thats why some of the older machine work better, over time they may not apply as much heat to set the toner to the paper.

Like you I was frustrated with transfering designs, I do know to much acetone washes it away, less is best.
The way l like the best is paint the surface let it tack up transfer from design printed on bakers paper and then spray fixative to cover the design. The lines are crisper.
 
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