Pulling pocket watch hinge pins?

James Roettger

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I just received these three pocket watch from another jeweler. One is the sample and the other two are what they want engraved. It seems to me the only way to engrave them inside the lid on the interior movement cover is to pull the hinge pin from the cases to fully expose the interior back. This seems risky on an old watch as the hinge tube could break or crack open. I can't really see engraving with the lids in place and open.
I think I should decline this job or ask the other jeweler to pull the pins. They want four names in each. Seems like too much with the lid on. Maybe one name but not four.

IMG_7324.jpg
 

Roger Bleile

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James,

I would have the jeweler disassemble the watch if he has experience as a watchmaker. Those pins can be tricky as you suspect. As to the inscription, I don't think four names are too much inscription. I have seen some old watches that have much more engraving on the couvet. Below are some examples.
 

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fegarex

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I would heed the expression "only a fool and a jeweler take the back off a watch".....
I supposed that should be updated to a jeweler with watchmaking experience.
It's not worth the job if you end up breaking something.
 

Kevin Scott

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I have taken out alot of these hinge pins. Before scrapping wornout gold filled cases I take them apart so to practice engraving on the covers.
It can be frustrating. I would suggest giving them to someone experienced in doing them. Or if you plan on doing alot of this work, practice on scrap cases first.
One system that I use now is to put the drive out pin in a brass bushing wire to support the driveout pin so it does not bend, and makes better alignment with the hinge pin so that the hinge pin comes out with a minimum of aggravation. And can hold the drive out pin easier.
If done right, there is no damage done to the original hinges.
 

James Roettger

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Seems risky no matter how well it is removed. I feel confident I can remove it as well as possible but not confident I can eliminate risk entirely. If when the watch was made the hinge solder was imperfect it could break free. I will tell the client they must sign off on any potential damage. This usually sends people running for the hills.
 

Arnaud Van Tilburgh

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My idea is that the one who removes the pin, when damaged he / she has to be able to repair it like original, I can do that.
And If I couldn't, I would never take the pin out.
But I agree, the risk or extra cost is for the owner, I would tell him that.

In a way it is like engraving, we all make a mistake sometimes, like I recently engraved a wrong date in a ring, I had to fix that changing one character. So if you engrave I think it is wise that you know how to fix an error.

arnaud

arnaud
 

James Roettger

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Of course fixing a broken hinge is itself not without risks. Those old seams on gold filled or sterling can be contaminated so deeply into the surface that the piece is not longer receptive to a a good solder joint, even if the seam area has been properly cleaned and resurfaced.
 

Mario Sarto

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This illustrates how it is usually done. The pieces at the end are a bit pressed in. Remove them with a sharp tip. After that you can bring out the inner bold easy.

But without experience i would give it to a good watchmaker to remove them.


remove.gif
 

James Roettger

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Mario thanks for the picture, that does look like a pretty good way to hook the pin and pull it rather than pushing which tends to mushroom the end being pushed. Typically on hinge pins I take a ball burr and drill out part of one end and then push it out out till I can get a draw tongs on it.
 

GTJC460

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I just did one but was able to do it without removing the pin. I just cut it from multiple angles like I was doing inside a ring. I used thermolock to make a fixture to hold it. Worked out pretty good.

It took twice a long as it should have, but I didn't want to fool with disassembly and putting it back together.
 

James Roettger

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I offered to do one name each instead of the four requested. This would be with the lids in place. I've pulled many hinge pins in the past with mixed results on old stuff in conjunction with repairs that needed to be done. Antiques are a bit like old cars where everything is seized and rusted tight, things can break on dissassembly. I'll be happy to do it if the customer gives the green light.
 

Tim Wells

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That illustration is the way my watchmaker books show and I've run into many that were tapered and go in one way only. Take a graver and pull it out very very gently to void a slip. I have a graver made out of a big sewing needle that I use for that job.
 

Kevin Scott

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Below is a copy of what I posted before, on 4/13/11.



Sounds like you have a hinged case. If so: The outside cover or covers if it is a hunter case, There are gold or silver plugs on each end of the hinge. Then there is tapered pin going through the hinge.
Take a very sharp graver, dig a little into the plug, and then push out the plug. Should not leave much of a mark on the plug. Save and reuse plugs.
Very important to push the tapered hinge pin out from the correct side. To find out which is the fat end, hold the case with the crown up, and the cover you want to remove facing you. The fat end of the pin is on your left. So drive out from right side.
Sometimes the pin comes out without to much trouble. Sometimes very troublesome.
Helpful to put penetrating oil on the hinge and give it time to soak in. I use Hoppes Gun Bore Cleaner. The only metal it will harm is lead. But there should not be any lead solder on the case.
The pin used to push out the hinge pin should be blunt with a diameter close to the inside diameter of the hinge hole. Tap with hammer.
I don't find this a easy Job. Hopefully others have tips on how to do this.
Also, the traditional way to engrave the outside of a inner dust cover is with the crown on your right.



In addition,
using the brass bushing wire, close fit to the drive pin, and with the length made so only 2mm of the drive pin protrudes above the bushing wire. Then hammer until the dive pin is flush with the bushing wire. Then use another piece of bushing wire 2mm shorter than the first, and hammer again.

Then there will be enough of the hinge pin sticking out to pull it the rest of the way with pliers.

Never had a problem with the hinge tubes getting damaged by the solvent, or breaking loose from the case.
 

Trueline

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Dec 9, 2012
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Almost one year later and I have benefited from your diagram and explanation about removing pins from pocket watch covers. Thanks!
 

Trueline

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Dec 9, 2012
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Ment to say thanks to Mario Sarto for his diagram and explanation of how to remove pins from pocket watch covers.
 

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