scroll saw for metal

[dave gibson]

Wow, thanks for a bunch of info. everybody. So far I think the band saw option might be best for me. I'm not wanting to do tight detail cuts, just some round cloud shapes, probably no smaller than a dime. Anything smaller I can use a jewelers saw and files.

Scroll saws are still looking good, if it doesn't work for the metal work I want to do it could come in handy for some other projects I want to do. I do see here a lot of folks having problems even with high end end models. There's no danger of the "Knew" model showing up around here.

I'm going to try to sort this all out before making a decision, hopefully get some more input right here. Meanwhile I'll be putting in some time busting blades with the jewelers saw, which is what I really need to learn.

 

[KCSteve]

I'm (slowly) getting better with my jeweler's saw but for quickly cutting out shapes I went with a jewelry press and pancake dies. There are a few different threads on making your own dies (hint: you're going to have to use your saw) and a couple on presses. There's one I started and done in response to my simple one with a better design. Go with the second one - it's a much better design.

With the press you pop out the design in less than a minute, then use your saw just to trim off a little tab. But the drawback is you need a die for each shape you want to do.

 

[jerrywh]

The trouble with most if not all scroll saw is they go too fast, speed is what ruins the blade. If I was going to do a lot of belt buckles I would look into having them laser cut.

 

[Chapi]

Hey Dave, I had an idea to mount a saw frame onto an armature bar from a tattoo machine, and run it upside down, but in the process of finding a shortcut, I came across an exercise that helped out my jeweler's saw skills to the point where I didn't want to bother with shortcuts: basically, take a penny, drill a small hole inside the border of the penny, and then thread a jeweler's blade through it and practice cutting out Lincoln's head and removing all the background from the border. Do four or five of those, and you'll become good friends with that saw. Sometimes the shortcut is the practice. Costs a lot less than a bandsaw that *might* do what you want. I wish I could give credit to the person that originally thought up the penny exercise, but I can't remember where I saw it.

 

[dave gibson]

Hey Chapi, Yeah I always knew there are several hours between where I'm at now and being proficient. This mornings practice is already improving, I only had about 45 min. to work on it but it's going a bit faster, smoother and I didn't break the blade. I got a bunch of blades all separated by size but they all look the same to me. What's a good number size to work with?

 

[TallGary]

Dave,

For help on what saw blade to use. Take a look at the saw blade specification chart in the lower left of the page shown on the link: http://media1.riogrande.com/virtual_catalogs/2015/tools/index.html#98/z

There are also some hints on sawing techniques on the page.

 

[Brian Marshall]

THIS IS JUST A STARTING POINT.


You want the spacing of the teeth compared to the thickness of the metal at around 2 - 2.5 teeth to start with...

So if you use some magnification, and hold the sawblade against the edge of the metal you want to see 2+ solid teeth.

If more than that, you are too fine. (for example if it takes 3 or 4 teeth to fill the thickness)

If less then that you are too coarse. (for example, if one tooth covers the thickness)



I generally lean towards the finer blade for precision, and the coarser for speed... your mileage may vary.


Brian

 

[monk]

Dave,
Do you ever watch any of the custom car shows on TV? They use body saws to cut out sheet metal for trimming and fitting. It's basically an air powered hacksaw. They would work pretty good for your straight cuts or gentle curves and you can work them into tight areas by making progressive angle cuts to remove lots of material. I expect Harbor Freight would carry them for around $25. Then, if it works out for you, you could buy a good one from Matco or Snap On tools. You do need a big enough compressor to run them though.

I had one years ago until it mysteriously disappeared from my tool box.

i too, have one of these. does a great job on big stuff. trying to use it for pendants or fobs-- mine is far too powerful to safely work on small stuff.

 

[cropduster]

Dave,

I also went through similar problems. The saw definitely has an impact on your situation but for me, the larger problem had to do with the blades. You can purchase metal cutting scroll saw blades from www.olsonsaw.com - their website provides a nice chart for you to make a selection from. Please note that the metal cutting blades are only available in pinless design so you the saw you select must be set up to mount pinless blades or at least, adapt from pinned to pinless. Olson does make a conversion kit but it will cost you an additional $30. If you have not yet purchased a scroll saw, I suggest you purchase one that is variable speed or one that can be equipped with a foot pedal rheostat as blade speed will definitely impact your quality of cut, particularly when you start your cut. Olson blades are available down to a jeweler's 3/0. I have heard that DeWalt makes a scroll saw that will directly mount the finest of jeweler's saw blades however, my needs have been well satisfied with a Harbor Freight unit and a private branded import sold by Ace Hardware. Dave, if I may be of any further assistance, please give me a shout. Good luck and Best Regards - Cropduster.

 

[KCSteve]

Brian

I've always seen the recommendation for TPI vs. metal thickness but you're the first one who said how to actually use it. THANKS! :clapping:

As with much of what you post, it's simple and effective.

 

[Roger B]

Here you go

http://goldmachinery.com/machinery/0543.htm

Good luck :clapping:

 

[Brian Marshall]

Roger,


That was actually one of the many older saws that inspired Lee Marshall to come up with the modern powered version for metalsmiths.


Brian

 

[monk]

a typo for sure. i just ordered a saw from micro mark. the scroll saw in their catalog DOES NOT go as low as 50 spm. that was a typo. the slowest speed is 500 SPM. i talked with the tech rep. he assured me the saw would work well on.062" copper. they have a 30 day return policy. when it gets here, i'll let you'll know.

 

[wdale.bass]

Dave I cut the main outline of my bracelets with a #3 hercules blade in a 6 inch jewelers saw frame,pierce cuts are done with a 4/0 or 6/0,from Rio Grande jewelers Supply,Albquerque,mat'l is 16 gage copper or sterling.Follow the same method as engraving a line,look where you are going not where you are(look about 3-4 mm ahead of the saw blade for those pesky straight cuts)

 

[monk]

Dave,

I also went through similar problems. The saw definitely has an impact on your situation but for me, the larger problem had to do with the blades. You can purchase metal cutting scroll saw blades from www.olsonsaw.com - their website provides a nice chart for you to make a selection from. Please note that the metal cutting blades are only available in pinless design so you the saw you select must be set up to mount pinless blades or at least, adapt from pinned to pinless. Olson does make a conversion kit but it will cost you an additional $30. If you have not yet purchased a scroll saw, I suggest you purchase one that is variable speed or one that can be equipped with a foot pedal rheostat as blade speed will definitely impact your quality of cut, particularly when you start your cut. Olson blades are available down to a jeweler's 3/0. I have heard that DeWalt makes a scroll saw that will directly mount the finest of jeweler's saw blades however, my needs have been well satisfied with a Harbor Freight unit and a private branded import sold by Ace Hardware. Dave, if I may be of any further assistance, please give me a shout. Good luck and Best Regards - Cropduster.

it's quite easy to remove the pins. i've been using regular coping blades for a long time. assuming you can get the correct "tpi", i've found the coping blades to be much more resistant to breakage. these do create a wider kerf, though.

 

[monk]

I'M ABOUT TO BUY ONE FROM MICRO-MARK. specs say it will stroke as little as 50 spm up to regular speed. i bought a proxxon. very well made, very poorly engineered. sent it back 4 days ago. the only assembly to do is insert the upper frame into a recess in the base. very difficult to get the 2 bolts to go into their threaded holes. the frame is in the way when trying to do this.
as if that wasn't enough, the recess has an open area about 3/8" by 2". guess where one of the bolts went-- that's right, it fell into the hole. no way to retrieve it. so, i actually don't know how it would have worked on the copper i have to cut. btw- the proxxon came from "prox-tech inc., not micro mark. will let all know how smoothly the return went.

big typo here. the slow speed is 500 spm, not 50 !

 

[cropduster]

Hello Dave Gibson,
I too have had a similar issue with scroll saws and the cutting of metal. The solution I was able to come up with is a bit different (not better) than the others I have seen. I found that it was difficult to find scroll saw blades that would work on metal.
After much investigation, I found the Olson Saw Co. Olson is a long standing manufacturer of saw blades - and they do make scroll saw blades and rate them for use on metals. The metal cutting blades are available in several configurations and go down to a jewelers 3/0. And they are only manufactured in the “pinlessâ€￾ design. Their website also has a great blade selection chart to assist you. The last time I bought blades they were priced around $8 - $10 per dozen blades - not sure where their price is now.
This means that the scroll saw you purchase must accept pinless blades or at least adapt to them. Most scroll saws today can be purchased to use pinless design blades however there are still a few scroll saws made that only operate with the “pinnedâ€￾ design of blade. You can purchase an Olson brand adapter to adapt from pinned to pinless but that adds an additional $30 to your investment.
Additionally, I would encourage you to set up for variable speed operation. Different metal of different hardness and thickness will require different feed rates. Two of the easiest ways I am aware of working through this is to purchase a saw that is already variable speed, or, purchase a foot pedal rheostat and locate it between your electrical outlet and the saw motor. For me, I prefer the foot pedal as it allows me to use both hands to manipulate the work piece, particularly on first contact with the blade. If you select the foot pedal approach, please have electrics checked for compatibility.
For foot pedal rheostats I found one that works really well at nearly all speeds but primarily, works well in the slower speeds - when your metal first comes in contact with the saw blade. The foot pedal can be obtained from Lucas Dental. It is trade named the “Lucas Lowboy #9â€￾ and the last time I checked, it sold for about $45-50 plus freight (Lucas also makes casting equipment for the dental industry and is now trying to break into the jewelry casting market).
I am currently using two scroll saws. One is the Harbor Freight unit (I believe they only market the one) and an offshore import private branded by Ace Hardware. Even together, I find I still have the need for a bench shear and a small band saw - I have not yet found one saw that will do it all.
In closing, please note that I am in no way affiliated with Olson Saw or Lucas Dental. You can reach the Olson Saw website at www.olsonsaw.com and Lucas Dental by calling (their website was under construction so I do not know what might come up) 1-800-332-5573 and ask for Richard Lucas.
Dave - good luck on your sawing quest and to all readers, I thank you for extremely valuable help and assistance. I do appreciate it.
Cropduster

 

[dogcatcher]

Otto Carter made a homemade version of the Knew Concepts Saw, used a variable powered drill to operate it. Maybe he can post up pics and ideas.

 

[monk]

Micro Mark used to sell one that uses jewelers saw blades.

they still do i have one coming here as we speak. i talked with the "tech guy". he said if it doesn't perform to my expectations in .062 copper or silver, i can return it.

 

[Mario Sarto]

... I just had my first experience with a jewelers saw yesterday, it was actually better than I expected. Broke lots of blades, got a lot of file work to clean it up. I have a lot to learn about cutting metal. There's supposed to be 6 different size blades but they all look the same to me. ...

Below you'll find a video I did a few years ago - move to minute 2:50 - you will see, how to start the cut with a bench jeweler saw. The blade I use there is about 0.25 mm witdh. Start slowly, don't hurry and feel the tool and what it needs and use the whole length of the blade - practice a lot and you'll be faster and faster.
[video]https://youtu.be/wf6IFKSFefk[/video]