Business side-SAVING TIME

How to analize your working environment by Value Steam Mapping it.
Ok, I expect to get some pretty serious feed back on this. I know a lot of you will think this is way off the wall, but my job is all about making the product better and in less time. Which means more profit. I think we all want this. So hit me with your questions, comments and criticism.


“NON VALUE and VALUE added timeâ€. In my business (Industrial Engineer) this is a term we use everyday. What it means is “the time used to make and not make the productâ€. In “NON VALUE†we can break this into two categories, necessary and non-necessary. But first (this may be hard to grasp) in all businesses, as well as engraving, the only “VALUE ADDED†time is what is accomplished to make the product. So I will use a firearm as the product for demonstration. There are only a few “VALUE ADDED†time processes when engraving a firearm
• Engraving and/or cutting
• Polishing/deburring

That’s it. This is what the customer is truly paying for. When he receives the firearm and holds it in his had this is what he paid for.

Now, overall he paid for a lot more of your time. Design, sharpening, etc, but these are all overhead cost and “NON VALUE†time. Ok, sharpening, design, etc. are necessary “NON VALUE†time that is required but getting up out of your chair and walking to sharpen that engraver is “NON VALUE†non-necessary. That is the walking part. Getting a drink is “NON VALUE†non-necessary. Necessary in our functions of everyday requirements, but as a cost of the product, NO! The customer is not paying for you to go get a drink, or walk to your powerhone; he is paying for the engraving. Now, granted we do works based on the job and not an hourly wage, for the most part, so you could say it doesn’t matter. But that time wasted or ill spent could be working on another project. If you have employees then it is a big effect on your cost. The more you can stay at your bench the less time ill spent.

Example: If it was a firearm and you disassembly/reassemble it, this is NON VALUE necessary. If you did the finishing/bluing, this is VALUE ADDED. When the customer looks at his products he will see it was blued. Disassembly and reassembly is necessary but the customer does not see this aspect of the product. ARE WE THINKING YET!!!!

A general list of NON VALUE

Necessary
• Sharpening engravers
• Designing
• Transfer
• Receiving
• Shipping

Non-necessary
• Answering the phone
• Going to the power hone
• Finding the gold
• Setting up the draw plate
• Etc.

This list can go on for ever, but the point is to make you start thinking about what the customer is truly paying for and where your time is being Valued and Not Valued.

Now, I will give you a basic of basic assignments for this, as we call it A Value Stream Map. This is to look at how you do an engraving job or any job, as see where your time is spent. You must be honest because this will only help you. Do it, even if you are the most skeptical person around.

The Japanese industry has been doing this for many years and look where they are from a standpoint of efficiency and productivity. MMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!

Here is your assignment. Sit down and starting from the end of an engraving job (the last thing you did) and list all the processes you did to do that job and work back to the beginning of that job. It must be a job you have accomplished so you can relive what was done. List everything, no matter what the detail, and list the times it took to do each task. Then look at what would it take to really do the job. Start from the most obvious and take out those items that are TRULY NON VALUE NOT NECESSARY and see how much time you could save. Next look at the NON VALUE that is NECESSARY and see where you could get more efficient. IE, put the power hone next to you so you will not need to get up. You will be surprised at how much time is wasted in the day on things that do not make you MONEY! I know this works, as I use it everyday in my environment and my job depends on me being able to do it and do it well. NOTE: I know going to the bathroom is necessary, but list it anyway. This exercise is only to get you to start thinking!!!!!!

I see this exercise as a series of parts. The one part I think you most address is the sharpening of your tools. (i.e. Lynton Mckenzie who stated that he felt he was more of tool maker than an engraver)
I have many, very many, tools that I keep sharp and in a holder on my bench. When my cutting tool needs to be sharpened I just replace it with another sharp tool. This keeps me from the stop/start memory process that some times causes delay and some times mistakes.
When my wife call for me to empty the garbage I head for the power hone and commence sharpening all the dull or chipped tools.(And thats how she knows she is the wife of an engraver)

Glen, your method of sharpening is the same way I do it. When I have spare time, before and after I engrave,I sharpen. I am not here to tell someone to do it this way or that way. The sharpening the gravers is just an example of one item. Each engraver has his/hers methods. Whatever that is we all know we can save time somewhere. This exercise or tool as I use it, is to identify each process so you can look at it. It's actually time managment. But the questions is where am I wasting and where can I save to be more efficient and productive. Each engraver might engrave and item and spend the same amount of time on it but accomplish it in two different methods and both are good methods. I am in no position to tell someone what you should do first etc., but I can tell someone if they map it all out where there non value and value is and how to remove the waste. The key question is to WRITE IT DOWN. You will be very surprised at what you see. You may think you are efficient but there is a lot of non value time in there you never saw. I have mechanics where I work that have been doing it this way for ever and they are so efficient it could not get better. After mapping out their process and removing the non value added waste, it's amazing how much more efficient they are. This whole thing is to just make you think so you can make sound improvments.

Your points are valid. The human element is one of difficult prediction. Illness, mental stress, fisical changes , night before partying, etc. make up the human machine.
Certainly if this is never written down there can be no improvement. I like to tell people to write two columns. One positive and one negative. This seems to lay out ones thoughts so an accurate analysis can be made.
Your thread is a deep issue that has plagued humanity since Adam (was Eve a wife of an engraver?).
Hey deep thinkers (Sam) lay out your thoughts!

Yves: I agree with you trying not to waste time. I think it's important to know how long it takes to do something. I also think a time study is the best way to accomplish that (for mechanical work, such as lettering or some simple things), including anything necessary to do the job, but from start to finish. Once the job is done without documentation the valuation is worthless. A time clock punching in and out of a job will give you such an accurate account of time a person would be amazed at how long or little time it actually took to do. An attorney charges you not only for court time but if he sends you a letter, calls you on the phone what ever pertains to your situation. That's his commodity his time along with his knowledge. The same goes for an engraver. Design is as important as sharpening as is the actual cutting, and should be compensated equally. The mechanical aspect is fairly easy to study and be paid well for it.
Now how would you address the art aspect of engraving? There are so many variables, sometimes a design may just pop out other times a mental block strikes, customers input, or lack of input, working the design around i.e.: screws, separations, size, shape, type of gun an on and on. It almost gets to the point where the engraver just charges what the market will pay or what he thinks it will pay. I'm guessing, but I'll bet the customer usually gets the clean end of the stick. It's much easier once you’re dead. Just ask DaVinci or Rembrandt
Mike

OK Mike, but what you charge the customer is not important in this matter. Our goal is not to charge the customer for how long it took us to do the job, but to charge the customer for what he is paying for. So if you charge say $xx for your time from start to finish on this job, lets see how we can shave off some of this time. What it takes to engrave the gun from a cutting stand point is fixed and that is VALUE to the product. But lets look at the NON VALUE (sharpening is necessary but NON VALUE and is considered overhead. Lets reduce the overhead) added to the cost and see how we can reduce it or even eliminate it. You may know how long it took to do something, but during that time frame what was accomplished in detail. Did you just cut with the graver. Did you get a book to look up something, get a drink. etc. The BIG QUESTION I am trying to drive here is to look at all the things it took to do a job and what is considered VALUE and NON VALUE. These are the two most important words here. How much was VALUE and how much NON VALUE was there in that process. Time studies are great to see how long it took to do a job or a particular operation, but it does not tell you what was done in the overall completion of that product and whether its Value or non value. This is where the MAP is critical "It took me 30 hours to engrave this gun". You cut for 30 hours? No, of course not. I had design, disassembly, layout transfer, engrave, sand, engrave, etc.etc. So in those 30 ours how much did you actually touch the product. Remember the PRODUCT, this is what the customer is TRULY paying. I know this is hard to grasp even though he is paying for layout and design. Here is a good example. 30 hours to engrave a SAA gun start to finish. 4 hrs barrel, 5 hrs receiver, 5 hrs cylinder, 1 hr trigger guard, 1 hr backstrap. 1 hr ejector housing. DONE. 17 hrs of touch labor of VALUE! Where did the other hours go. That's what we need to know and what that time was spent on. There is waste somewhere, the question is where. The MAP will identify it for you. From there the decision can be made to either take the increased profit or lower your price and be more competitive.

Hi Yves

An old but very useful concept for managing time. We call it prductive & non productive time. Non productive being your overhead time which all has to calculated into your hourly rate that you charge out to the customer. A lot of it is nesassary, but still non productive.

A good example of this is talking to the client. Naturally you have to find out what they want etc. That's after you've talked about the weather, the football game etc. All non productive (not actually doing the job) but still nessasary. Going to the bank is another example.

The trouble is you do that 100 times a year or more and that's a lot of non productive time. But it still has to be charged out somewhere or you will find your profit margin at the end of the looking extremley skinny.

It's a good concept to grasp as it makes a difference to your time management and your profit. Trouble is too many self employed try to pass the saving onto their client as opposed to keeping it in their profit side of the ledger.

The problem is highlighted when your self employed and you are the "cheif cook and bottle washer" as well and you have no leverage with staff.

A gunsmith I know has a novel way of dealing with it. He keeps his answering machine on at all times and checks it twice a day. (gun people love to talk.....a lot) Therefore eliminating all the "tyre kicker" phone calls. You see him by appointment only as his workshop is locked. (therefore avoiding peolple just dropping in etc) He dosn't negotiate price. He tells you how much and that's it, or your seen out the door promptley. He also happens to be very successful in his business with seriouse clients that pay well for a good job done on time.

Cheers
Andrew Biggs

Hello Yves.
What you are talking about is very interesting and totally correct for factory type products.
But engraving is an art form when produced by some of the top people.
A lot of what the client is paying for is the DESIGN capability of that artist, not just the cutting, which is only the execution of the an inspired design.
The design is the main value of the product and is a Value Added part.
Art and product are two different things.
A great painting consists of a $10.00 canvas, $5.00 worth of paint, a little labor and a $100,000 worth of thought, design and skill.
These things are what the client is paying for when it comes to art engraving.
If you can reduce high art engraving to a production mechanical formula,
then I think you might be on to something.
Having been a designer for the last 50 years, I can not agree with your premise as applied to engraving.
Respectfully, I think you are comparing apples and oranges.
Sorry to disagree with you, just my thoughts.
John B.

Geeze John!
I am glad you and Andrew came along….
I have spent too much time thinking about this….Non productive….!
I can’t figure out who to charge for my thoughts. Thanks to you fellows for clearing this up. Back to work.
Jim

I agree with you John.
Yves: Most engravers I know if they say they put 30 hours into something they probably put in 40 or more actual work. Whether it be layout or cutting, or whatever. You can't cut without a design, you can't cut without a sharp graver and it can't be cut without the craftsman. A skilled worker is constantly dealing with many different variable. It can be gruesome on the eyes, mind and physically wear you down. If you need a break then you better take one or your going to screw something up and it will cost you more in the long run. You can't force yourself to keep working it doesn't work that way in the arts only in production and even then quality is sacrificed.
Mike

This has been a very thought provoking thread. Many of us who have dealt with advanced collectors of high-end custom knives or guns are painfully aware of how much time can be burned up talking on the phone with them, designing theme pieces, etc. Many like to feel like they're a part of the process, not just the guy writing the check, so they like to participate. When I quote a price for a big job, I figure that into the total.

While the one-man custom engraving shop like mine might not be able to adhere to an industrial formula of time management, being keenly aware of where your time goes can certainly help make your shop more productive. / ~Sam

I have to agree with the Great Barraclough. I think this concept is bogus for the engraving business model. Yes you have to be aware of time wasters like too much time on the phone and ways to get around it. Buy a headset, a $300 headset is cheap compared to the hours you can waste stuck on the phone not engraving. But saying sharpening or design is non-productive time? Hello! Its the top side of the wheel that is rolling the wagon down the road. It does'nt have to be there, cause it's not touching the road right now, only the bottom half is... But try taking that top half away and see how far that wagon rolls...

Really I think this whole concept is bogus thinking for any industry. It is lines of thought like this and parrallel ideas like "just in time delivery" that has been the basis of moving American manufacturing offshore and causing us to have to sell our assets to foreign countries to support our national debt. But I suppos this is going to far down the politcal road so I will leave it.

What every engraver needs to know is how many hours does the job take, including design, sharpening, polishing, buying tools learning how to use new tools , getting a drink, going to the bathroom (as long as yuo don't spend 30 minutes reading a magazine) etc, plus an added overhead for lights, heat, mail, computer, advertising, etc to adequately charge for their time.

All this said as someone who's primary source of income for 17 years was engraving, and now has managed a light manufacturing and sales business with 6 employees for the last nine years. Taken a few ergonomics and time management seminars along the way too.

I enjoyed John B's comments. Some things are near impossible to measure when dealing with the human element. An Industrial engineer likes things to be measured. This is good and improves production. Creativity in humans is very hard to measure. Artists live by creativity. What makes for an interesting combo is the engineer who aspires to be an artist engraver!!

Everyone, Scott hit it right on the head. "What every engraver needs to know is how many hours does the job take"This "idea" or method is not about just in time or not charging for design and conversations on the phone, but about "seeing where your time goes" and then making those adjustments to make yourself better. I can get from Atlanta to Chicago without a map but it may take longer. If I have been doing it this way for ever I may think its the only way. So, as scott says look at what it takes to do every job. Each engravers skills are what they are and we all get or save time with new methods of doing things. One way might be a different way to do gold inlay, or instead of inlay overlay, RIGHT SAM! I want all of us to look at both the "VALUE" and the "NON VALUE" stuff. The stuff that is "NECESSARY", sharpening, design etc., and the "NON NECESSARY", other things that take us away from our job. For you engravers that have been doing this for a long time you know how to be the most productive. For you that are new to this business are you the most productive you can be. This is just a simple method or "process map" to help you get there. I am not saying do not go to the store or go to the bathroom, but list it as one thing that needs to be done to complete the job. I doesn't matter if you are in major manufacturing or assembly work or custom engraving. One cannot better themselves if one does not know where they are. I will give one more example: You map a job out and see it took a lot of time to do that gold wire inlay. You ask yourself can this be done better. You ask fellow associates and a suggestion is made, you use it and save a lot of time on your next job that has wire inlay. THIS IS WHAT I MEAN. If you are not aware how long it took to do the inlay, you may have never asked the question "IS THERE A BETTER WAY" You may have always drawn your design on the engraved part, but discover a new transfer method that saves time and produced a better product. This is what this tool is suggesting.

This thread was only to give some thought about how you do things and a method how to look at it, and maybe better yourself. You may feel this concept of looking at what and how you do your job does not fit this profession, OK. I hope we all feel we would like to engrave a product of higher quality with the bonus of doing it in a shorter time span. I do appologize if I have affended or angered anyone.

Yves.
This is not intended to push the point, I had my say.
I fully realize that you are trying to offer helpful advise and respect that.
I'm sure that is what Sam wants for the Cafe.
And your input will be very helpful to some.
Best regards and thanks for a thought provoking thread.
John B.

PS, Friend Scott, you are just a Tennessee master of words!
Loved your "top and bottom of the wagon wheel."
Still laughing. Hope to see you in Reno. J.

Hi Yves

No need to apologise and I would be doubtful if anyone was offended. I think it just proves the point of "different strokes for different folks". Everyone has a different way of looking at things and approaching a subject depending on their background. None of it particulary right or wrong, just different opinions.

I've no doubt, that in a hundred years when we are all gone, that this same topic of disscussion will still be going on.

Best regards
Andrew Biggs

Yves, no offense or anger taken, and I hope none seriously on your part. It is a good thread for the would be commercial engraver to think about investment of time in things that contribute to being in business. That's a good thing. But I think some of these concepts are subdividing the information into smaller peices than is necessary for the engraver as pertains to this forum, and for large corporations it is the type of information that is used to justify actions that only benefit those at the upper echelons of management.

Off my soapbox

Scott, you got that right. Everything I do in regards to reducing cost whether it be hours or time in my industry most definatly benefits upper managment. I see the new high end cars they all have just after the bonuses come out. In regards to this, if all that comes out of it is we all look at what we do everyday and say to ourselves, "IS THERE A MORE PRODUCTIVE WAY TO DO THIS." That is all I am striving for, is for everyone to think.

Was this meant to be a deliberately provacative posting?

Because, Yves, who is paying for the 27 years + of experience? And for all the unpaid time whilst learning the skills? And for all the other stuff that is related to engraving generally eg, tool purchase and set up, research, design, etc? Who pays for the time taken in experimentation to try new techniques that will hopefully improve the skill set? A client is paying not just for the time spent cutting. If a graver need sharpening then it has to be sharpened fact, it's part of the job. Would you ever dream of saying to a mechanic 'I'll pay you for the time you spend under the hood of the car but not for wiping oil from your hands 'cause that's unnecessary!' Of course not, that's just part of the job. Now if he takes an hour to wipe the grease off his hands then you may have a point.

If you want to turn into an automaton that's fine but a word of warning, if you don't build the regular 'break' time into your job schedule if you're unlucky you'll end up like me. For well over a year now I've been suffering agony from a trapped nerve in my neck which affects my right hand (at least I hope that's what it is, I'm seeing a specialist this afternoon) and am either in pain or high on the painkillers. Not good This came about because of pressure to finish a job. The client kept pressuring me for the job and after a 12 hour day with a 5 hour non-stop stint I awoke at 4am with what felt like someone clamping my arm in a vise and no matter what I did the pain just wouldn't subside. So far from getting the job back quicker the client had to wait much longer to get it back. Plus, it's affected work performance for over a year now.

If one takes 30 hours on a job and 8 of those hours are spent on other things related to that job plus exercise breaks then that is included in the final bill. What you have to remember is some of us are highly skilled labour not just jobbers and a client doesn't just pay for the 'cutting time' but the skill involved too. If all you're clients are interested in, Yves, is paying for the time you've spent on the 'Value/necessary' parts of the job they aren't really interested at all in the finished product just in coverage. They may as well get something laser cut as far as I'm concerned.

John, Mike, Scott and Andrew I'm with you guys for what it's worth.

Sorry Yves, I have to disagree with this posting. Become a full time engraver and a one man band and apply your 'guru's words' to yourself. I think you'll end up struggling. It's fine in industry if you're employing a workforce. You have a point on 'time wasting' but as far as the rest of it is concerned you keep your schedule and I'll keep mine, thanks.

cheers,
Marcus

Yves, I have to agree with Marcus. I have 48 years fulltime in the trade, had a commercial firearm engraving co. with 35-40 employees. I did time studies to try and save lost time and to some small extent was successful. However, what marcus said. with respect , Ken