Art or Craftmanship

Arnaud Van Tilburgh · Jan 10, 2010

I probably break some legs with this tread, as most of you calls it Art. For me it is just Craftsmanship.

Engraving and Jewellery making is just Craftsmanship.
Making a sculpture less than 30 cm high is Craftsmanship, if it is more than 30 cm, whatever the material used, it can be Art.
A design also needs some size to be Art, an engraving is to small.

Art is a word that was invented by Art Traders, and it does not reflect Craftsmanship.
One can draw a strait line one a white canvas, and that is Art. No need to use a chrono to put the price on it.

Most jewellers probably know that their work canâ€™t be sold as Art. Unless one is an Artist and make some jewellery.

I must admit I donâ€™t care if my work is not Art. But if I could, it would cost much more than time spent. But I would have to work in a bigger size.

A Rembrandt pencil sketch now these days is Art, although for Rembrandt it was just study material.
And Iâ€™m sure none of you ever sold a pencil design for an engraving as Art, simply because it is not Art. Sure it is Craftsmanship.

Now these days some new even unknown Artist sell their work for 50.000 Euros, and they easily can make 10 of these works a week. They are just called Artists because one Art trader see business in their work.

So my conclusion I have some years now, donâ€™t call me an Artist, Iâ€™m just a Craftsman with a chrono. :big grin:

arnaud

John B. · Jan 10, 2010

To paraphrase William Shakespeare :
“What’s in a name? “
“ A rose is still a rose what ‘ere you call it.”

Arnaud Van Tilburgh · Jan 10, 2010

John, indeed, but the difference between the word Art and Craftsmanship is a lot of money while doing the same thing.

arnaud

Christopher Malouf · Jan 10, 2010

The great thing about the forum (and the world) is the fact that we have the right to disagree even when the seasoned, veteran old guys are always right. :big grin:

John B. · Jan 10, 2010

Arnaud,
It doesn’t matter what you call it, and you are free to price it as you please.
The free market is still the ultimate judge of its worth and you will suffer the consequences of the markets opinion as to it’s true worth whether you call it art or craft.
After all, a slice of bread may seem like priceless art or a miracle to a starving man while a DaVinci print may have no value to him at that time.

Andrew Biggs · Jan 10, 2010

But is it art???

A question that has been around since Alpha and I suspect will still be argued at Omega.

Always strive to upsell yourself..............If art gets you more money, then be an artist that produces art. If being a craftsmen spins your tires then be a craftsman. Everyone sends out a resonance throughout the universe that attracts similar things to itself. Happy people attract happy things and dour people attract dourness, violence attracts violence and love attracts love, the smile you send out always comes back to you

Or in other words.................artists attract buyers of art and craftsmen attract buyers of craft. But be warned, you must be what you say you are because the fraud will always be found out.

Cheers
Andrew

Arnaud Van Tilburgh · Jan 10, 2010

John I agree with you about the bread and the DaVinci.
But in my opinion there is no free market, as I have to follow different rules than you or some Craftsman in Taiwan.

But that was not my point, not even about the word, only the difference of meaning between Art and Craftsmanship.

And as I was young while Pop Art began, in that time we all could create Art, and all we where doing was called Art, but only those who kept doing what we all where doing became Artists, Things like the "planes" of Panamarenko (Belgium artist) now are sold as Art. Simply because he kept on making the same things, so if one do the same thin for 40 years, he become the recognition " If he is still doing this, he must be good"

And I don't want to argue with you as I have full respect for you, and it is an endless discussion, "what is Art".

arnaud

Christopher Malouf · Jan 10, 2010

If I was interested in learning a craft, I'd go down to the public library on Wednesdays and learn how lace gimp.

Technically speaking, or should I say "historically", much of the engraving done for illustration were copied from drawings or paintings. The bank-note illustrations seen on bills are all from paintings. Historically, engravers executed a "procedure" or process to achieve this and few put their own "art" into steel, copper or wood.

Arnaud Van Tilburgh · Jan 10, 2010

Wise words Andrew, I agree.
Never the less, not all what we see here is Art. Sure not mine, altough I think I'm an artist by the meaning of "living spirit"

arnaud

Daniel Houwer · Jan 10, 2010

Hi Arnaud,
I agree on you with the craftsman thing. But why is anything below 30cm not able to be art?
I mean, what has size to do with art.

I do think you have a very good question here since I have been wondering where craftsmanship stoppes and art begins.

tundratrekers@mtaonline.n · Jan 10, 2010

i think that any enhancement beyond that necessary for functional utility,could be labeled as art.lets be honest, anything beyond pure utility,is considered a luxury to most people.nobody needs to own engraved objects in order to survive. God Bless,mike:thumbs up:

Arnaud Van Tilburgh · Jan 10, 2010

Daniel, I don't know, but if make a sculpture of a king on his horse by the size of 3 cm, it never will be Art or exposed in a gallery, if I make it 30cm it could.

So in my opinion it has to do with size.

If one would engrave a flat piece of metal 100cm x 33 cm (golden mean) exposing what ever it is, and he does that for some years, he could have his work in a gallery exposition and put a price on it that is more than his our loan.
I'm working on small pieces, no way to sell it as Art.

arnaud

Arnaud Van Tilburgh · Jan 10, 2010

Mike, we all need "Art" to survive, as it is the richness of human being.
Sure we can not eat it, but we will make "Art" when we have the time for it.
But an authority that does not invest in "Art" makes their citizenry poor.

arnaud

tundratrekers@mtaonline.n · Jan 10, 2010

arnaud,very well said!!!!! i have the same sentiments.as do all nations that care for the wellbeing of the people.i dont think size has anything to do with it being art.i think the amount of ones heart and soul is put into the work.do they love their chosen path?was it one they chose for pure monetary gain?was it a calling,something they had to do/accomplish?only the maker can decide this,the public will be the judge! just as each woman will decide if size matters,so will each person decide if it is art or craft. great thread!!! :beerchug:

Arnaud Van Tilburgh · Jan 10, 2010

tundratrekers@mtaonline.n said:
arnaud,very well said!!!!! i have the same sentiments.as do all nations that care for the wellbeing of the people.i dont think size has anything to do with it being art.i think the amount of ones heart and soul is put into the work.do they love their chosen path?was it one they chose for pure monetary gain?was it a calling,something they had to do/accomplish?only the maker can decide this,the public will be the judge! just as each woman will decide if size matters,so will each person decide if it is art or craft. great thread!!!

Sure Art has to do with size, and it are not all persons that decide whether something is Art or not. In my opinion it are the investors who create Art.
And not became they like it, but mostly because it is a good investment.

And of course, if one creates something nice, there is a public for it, cheap or expensif.

It will have the stamp "Art" when it can be traded as Art.

arnaud

jerrywh · Jan 10, 2010

If you don't think a engraved gun can bring a lot of money , Think again.

John B. · Jan 10, 2010

I gotta go with Andrew on this one. Very well said.
What you project comes back to you in most areas of life, including your work.

And Daniel, like you I question the size thing too.
What about some of the tiny paintings on ivory made for the Royalty to wear and done by the old Masters?

I'm done. Hacked this one to death, sorry.

leroytwohawks · Jan 10, 2010

" what is art?" Art is in the eye of the beholder, right? and there is a lot, that I see on here, that in my eye is ART!!!!

Kevin

Arnaud Van Tilburgh · Jan 10, 2010

jerrywh said:
If you don't think a engraved gun can bring a lot of money , Think again.

Sure I know it can, but not in terms like art.
arnaud

Arnaud Van Tilburgh · Jan 10, 2010

We could discuss the word Art, but Andrew already said it better than I can.
But one thin we could agree, Art is not an old word.
Andrew probably know, that the native New Zealanders made very nice designs, but I don't think they called it Art.
Only the Art traders now sell it as Art.
But okay if I can not share my idea what is Art, although I can give you many examples that it also is about the size.

The 30 cm is not the standard of course, but I'm convinced it has to be bigger than jewellery.

If someone still droughts about the size, try to expose your work in an Art Gallery and see what the owner will tell you

arnaud

Art or Craftmanship

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