Readiness of Beginner to Engrave a Gun

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How does a beginner know when they are ready to engrave a gun?
When I was an apprentice printer, we had a list of skills we needed to be proficient in before being considered able to work on our own. Granted we were still dangerous on our own. Although inexperience leaves one vulnerable to certain mistakes, surely there is an overview of the craft that would serve as a basis beginners could use to make reasonably sound decisions.
What specific skills are needed for the gun engraver to be considered basically proficient?
Practice alone is not enough, certainly specific measurable skills are needed.
After so long practicing towards the goal of engraving guns, now people have begun to trust me with their treasures and I don't want to let them down. I want to be sure I won't do anything to "ruin" or devalue their possessions. Isn't there a basic and simple treatment of engraving than can be elegant and within the beginners reach. The customers I attract are not kings, but I would like to treat them like they are because they have trusted my work. Irregardless of the current monetary value of their guns, isn't there an engraving option that would be within reach of both the inexperienced gun engraver and the average budget? Grandpa's monogram on his old Winchester restored by his son and grandson shouldn't break the bank and would enhance a family heirloom. The general public has almost no exposure to engravers- no wonder hand engraving is so misunderstood.
While we are blessed to have so many wonderful and talented engravers in this forum, much of the work displayed is so perfect and so small no one I know could ever afford such amazing art. Reaching this level of ability would take a lifetime. What benchmark did you use to determine your readiness?
The market for this work is not at the local gun show. Is it reasonable to assume an engraver can start out by attending local gun shows and gradually build their skills? Will my work be forever tainted if I start out offering only a couple styles of scroll and some game scenes? Everyone starts somewhere and usually where your at is the best place to start.
 

leroytwohawks

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One thing I would do if you have not already is some practice pieces. GRS has some gun practice pieces that I would work on first here: http://www.grstools.com/practice-pieces/gun-parts/024-013.html, http://www.grstools.com/practice-pieces/gun-parts/011-423.html and http://www.grstools.com/practice-pieces/gun-parts/practice-floor-plate.html When you feel comfortable engraving and laying out your designs with these, then move on to a small project first. If you have your own gun that's the best place to start. Plus you need to know if you want to engrave guns for other people there is a special gun licenses you must have in order to keep the gun in your possession while it is being worked on. That's just one aspect that you might not be aware of.

Kevin
 

Christopher Malouf

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Hi Theresa,

First .. There are much more experienced firearms engravers than I who will certainly do a far better job providing good, sound advice. ... but then again, I'm not so old that I can't vividly remember when I shared your frustration.

All I wanted was to engrave guns but I didn't want to ruin any by learning along the way either. I spent a lot of time studying books by RL Wilson, reading magazines like Double Gun Journal and, of course, joining FEGA. This was all about 5 years ago while I waited for a seat in my first engraving class.

You've got to develop an eye for what looks good and what doesn't and late nights studying is the only way to get there. All things like scroll and border work, flow/direction and how to handle different parts and sections of various guns (scene layout and design) need to be learned by studying history. It is best to learn what is aesthetically pleasing by learning history.

You've got to draw and learn to love the pencil. Once you've developed an eye, you'll be able see what sets apart a full coverage job for $300 bucks from the jobs that fetch $3000 bucks. After time, you'll have developed enough proficiency engraving in traditional styles that you will want to develop your own style. ..... and you don't have to be an artist. Art can be learned. Personally, I believe you have to eventually strive to develop your style because having a style that is distinctively yours is what will set your work apart from others.

I bought, cheap, reproduction cap & ball revolvers and "mimicked" the styles of the masters I saw in the books. I also chose to engrave motorcycle parts to practice my gun engraving. I basically engraved anything I could in a fashion that would enhance my gun engraving skills. It seems I'll forever be known as a "motorcycle engraver" because of it, but then again, I'm not trying to erase the memory of being a poor engraver as I move into knives or guns.

The first actual commission I worked on was a Colt 1911 for a friend working for Gov. Joe Manchin. It was a West Virginia theme Colt and I knew I was WAY over my head. I didn't even know that I had to anneal gold and I didn't even have a microscope but I prayed that one would turn up. He waited for 18 months for just the slide. The grips were another story.:rolleyes: I had a clear vision what I wanted to do but no idea how to get there. It took that time to develop a plan .... ALWAYS have a plan. Also have a strategy that constantly challenges yourself. Those challenges, on whatever "canvas" that may be, will make you a better gun engraver. That WV Colt is on my web site if you are curious .... the cap & ball guns I engraved to get the skills to take on that "real" job are at the bottom of the Kanawha river :)

In diversifying to hone your skills, you'll also learn how to engrave all sorts of things. Trust me - traditional firearms scroll looks good on EVERYTHING and it is the most recognizable "style" of scroll by the general public. That can work to your advantage when one market is slow. I've also found that I can make much more money engraving jewelry and knives .... but the important thing is that my firearms engraving skills advanced very quickly and I can satisfy my love for firearms "art" whenever the desire comes around because I know how to do it.

Everything takes time (maybe years) .... time (and pressure) to make anything of value more valuable. You've got to put the time in, both at the bench practicing and on the couch memorizing those books. One day your stuff will look like some of the stuff you saw in one of those books. That's the day and how soon it comes is entirely up to you and how confident you are in accomplishing the projects you decide to take in.

You're probably thinking "here's another guy telling me to read, draw and cut practice plates again" - well, if your going to teach yourself then that's the way it is otherwise you'll have to get an apprenticeship of some sorts.

Best of luck,


Chris
 
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John B.

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Theresa,

Chris made some very good, helpful points.

A visit to the FEGA show in Reno and talking to the other gun engravers would be a lot of help to you.
If you can't do that try to find a quality gun shop or seller in your area who is willing to show and let you examine American factory engraved handguns by Colt and Smith & Wesson with patterns they offered from their catalog.
And older long guns with standard factory patterns by Winchester.
Most of these are not masterpiece engraved but are good quality, hand engraved examples of what is acceptable as entry level firearms engraving.
It increased the value of the gun, not the other way around.
There is plenty of time to gradually develop ones own style when you are well established.
Just my thinking. I welcome you into the firearms engraving world.
Best.
 

Andrew Biggs

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Hi Theresa

Chris and John have said it very well.

It varies considerably for everyone. There is a lot you have to learn engraving a gun most of which you will only learn by engraving a gun. Things like work holding and the like are challenging but simple enough once you get your head around it.

You don't have to produce great works of art. Not every engraving has to have 5000 shade lines or 20 million dots or be so small that you need a telescope to see it. A good basic scroll design that flows well and is cut well can look like a million dollars if done properly.

You do have to know a bit about layout and design. The one thing that you must be able to do and that is draw and cut a small scroll. If you can't do that then you are handicapped from the start. They don't have to be perfect as that will come with time and experience.

Chris is exactly right................start with buying a gun and engraving one for yourself. (Black powder cap n ball guns are great because the metal is generally nice to work on) That way if it's a butchers mess (which it probably will be) you can throw it in the river or melt it down for a paperweight. A bad reputation travels a lot faster than a good one.

The minute you work on other peoples guns/knives/jewellery etc everything changes.................especially if money is involved. Expectations have to be met and that standard realistic. Don't listen to your friends when they tell you your work is great because they are just being nice and polite (and so they should be)

Learn the basics first. Learn to cut a straight line. Learn to cut a scroll without "dogs legs" and bumps in them. Learn what a decent scroll is and be a able to draw it.

Practice on small projects first, like the GRS key rings and gun parts, until you are sick of it.................then practice some more. Invest in a paper mill and buy about a gazillion reams of paper and draw until you have worn your fingers out and suffer from sleep depravation............then get up early and start all over again. When you are sick to death of drawing.................draw more until you are seeing scrolls in your sleep.

There are absolutely no short cuts in any of it. Engraving is very highly skilled work and it takes years to develop the necessary skills.

Cheers
Andrew
 

Kevin P.

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"How does a beginner know when they are ready to engrave a gun?"
Theresa you'll know when your passion for it overcomes your good sense.
Only you can know. When your heart beats faster and your knees are knocking. When you ready to overextend yourself and accept the risk of failure.
I'm not an engraver; but I believe the above to be true.
Kevin P.
 

diandwill

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I found that by, engraving guns that I owned, and showing them to people, when they said "That's nice. Do mine like that!", that I was ready to do other peoples guns. Like Chris said, you can buy inexpensive cap and ball revolvers, you can go to gun sales before they tighten up the requirements, and you can buy used/inexpensive semi-autos at gunbuyer.com and auctionarms.com. You will have to have those shipped to a holder of a FFA license though.
Also read the threads on what is required to take possesion of another persons gun, for the purpose of engraving. It is a bit draconian, but reading in advance will save headaches (and maybe prison) later.

Good luck, and happy cutting Will
 
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Thanks guys. Lack of self confidence is one of my greatest weaknesses. The support and encouragement from you sure brighten this cold dark basement. I have an FFL. Now that deer season is over maybe I should start whittlin' on my old 870. I have been dying to try a little inlay. I haven't seen much done in copper, but think a deer would look good. Drawing was a skill that always got me in trouble. Even though I kept painting and drawing anyway, I learned to hide my work. Guess I'll have to get over that now. LOL My children are now my strongest supporters. I think I am on the right road- especially now I know I have such good company.
 

SamW

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You are in the best of company and have been given a lot of good advice. The only way to learn is by doing so have at it...just go slow and plan well ahead. I still have the first 2 guns I engraved some 40+ years ago and I DO NOT show them to anyone. But what a great reminder of where I was and where I wanted to be. Best of luck. I believe you can!
 

Marcus Hunt

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My 2 cents worth; I think the problems of where to start are a sign of the times due to there being no formal training.

When I was apprenticed, like Andrew says, I cut small stuff week in week out until I was sick of it. When my Master/father deemed me worthy I cut the screws for a gun he was working on. Then one of his clients saw the screws and had me cut some for the rifles he made. But cutting the practice plates never ceased and when finally I could cut a reasonable rendition of English fine rose & scroll and English large scroll, the client saw my practice plates and thought the cutting good enough for an actual gun which he put my way. He didn't expect perfection (luckily he knows a lot about engraving and appreciates it's subtleties) but he knew if I got stuck my father could guide me.

The self taught (and by this I also include those who have taken courses as when the class ends they're on their own) do not have this luxury or safety net. So you have to make quadruply sure that you have the confidence to take on whatever is given to you.

A gun engraver has to be able to cope with many variations in steel (and especially you guys in the USA who have to work on hard metal), and many different shapes including concave and convex surfaces. It's no good being able to cut a lovely flat sided, soft brass framed Winchester repeater only to fall down if someone gives you a side by side shotgun with all its curves.

So my advice to you is get as much practice in on the odd shaped, not always flat, stuff until you can cut it as well as the flat pieces. Also, don't be afraid to start small. An exquisitely cut border and screws will knock spots off a poorly engraved scroll on a gun. So practice things like borders and all their variations. I know it's hard and the temptation is there but do 'learn to walk before you run' and it will pay dividends in the end.

Like the others have said, practice on your own handgun first and then you'll have a sample to show prospective clients.
 

Roger Bleile

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Sinple Coverage

“…Isn't there a basic and simple treatment of engraving than can be elegant and within the beginners reach. The customers I attract are not kings, but I would like to treat them like they are because they have trusted my work. Irregardless of the current monetary value of their guns, isn't there an engraving option that would be within reach of both the inexperienced gun engraver and the average budget?”

Again you have received insightful advice from seasoned professionals on this forum. I might add that some of us spend so much time crafting these types of replies because we realize that it is not just the person who asked the question who benefits but innumerable others who have the same questions but for one reason or another don’t ask. On the other side of the coin I would ask you to fill out your profile so we can sense a personal connection with the person we have spent so much time answering. I don’t think it is too much to ask.

Now to more directly answer the portion of your question that I have quoted above. The answer is yes, there are basic and simple forms of decoration that are both elegant and cost conscious. Unfortunately, it is common here and in print publications for an engraver to show his or her most elaborate, complicated, and technically challenging work. As a result it is sometimes difficult to find pictures of good quality decoration involving a minimum of coverage. One of the reasons is that most of us don’t bother to take pictures of those kinds of things as we consider them to be routine and I am particularly guilty of that.

Another consideration is that when a gun is fully covered with a profusion of complicated ornamentation, it is hard for any but the trained eye to detect slight imperfections or the odd “wonkie” scroll. With light coverage and simple medium to large scroll, the dog leg, elbow, or uneven line is so much more obvious.

To help answer your question I have attached below photos of two Government Model Colts showing minimum but very clean and tasteful coverage.

The first (with DLB on the grips) was engraved by Colt master George B. Spring. You will note that all of the engraving is on the flat parts of the gun and that the scroll is uncomplicated but well shaped and cleanly cut.

The next gun is the 1987 CCA show gun engraved by Dennis Kies. Again, a clean, uncomplicated design that is well executed on a Gold Cup model. In this case Kies engraved the top of the slide which is convex but that part of the design could have been omitted for a lower priced job.

So often I have seen beginning engravers (on the forums) submit designs for critique that are overly complicated with interlocking scrolls and complex leaves. One of the reasons for this is because that is what they have seen the professionals display. As can be seen in the examples shown here, a simple design with good proportions and skilled execution can be a thing of beauty that can be appreciated by all including someone who has never seen an engraved gun.

ps: Like you, my brother, Carl started out 40 years ago engraving copper cylinders in a rotogravure shop. It was a big jump from there to gun engraving but at least the tools and techniques were familiar.

CRB
 

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pilkguns

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I think what what Roger has said is EXTREMELY good advice for the engraver starting on firearms. Far better to loose your shirt on a job that takes 4 or 5 hours, and learn to quote accordingly than loosing your shirt on a job that takes 40 or 50 hours.
 

John B.

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Theresa, maybe you know this but just in case........
Watch out for inlaying copper into your Remington 870 shotgun.
If you hot blue it the copper will mess up the salts in the tanks.
Best.
 

Christopher Malouf

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Great post Roger!!

.... by the way, I'm far from seasoned. Probably a little moldy becoming crusty .... lost a lot of shirts and aged 10 years in the last three.

The self confidence thing is a big issue Theresa. If you let it become procrastination then your going to have a difficult time developing your speed and turnaround time.

Will makes an excellent point about buying up some stuff to hold on to.

When you can, buy firearms of value that will appreciate whether you engrave them or not. Be sure to choose the right caliber, right model and right manufacturer that dealers and collectors desire. Don't ask me how I learned that :)

Take care,

Chris

p.s. Yep John ... made that mistake with copper once. Fine silver is inexpensive enough and easy to draw down with a draw plate to the exact diameter you need. It wasn't very long ago when I was pestering Ray Viramontez about how those draw plates work. I never knew that wire drawn down to half its' width will go twice as far. :) A good tungsten carbide draw plate from Rio Grande or Contenti.com is one of the best investments one can make.
 
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monk

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some believe it nonsense to engrave a "junk" gun. but if you can get one that is in deplorable condition, that nobody would want, you have lost only a few bucks, and gained some experience. but- go at that junk gun as if it were being delivered to a serious collector. do good layout, well placed, do your best cutting possible. you may surprise yourself.
i was fearful beyond belief when facing my first "client gun". i looked at the gun seemingly for an eternity before something moved my stricken hand to the layout and i began cutting. i cant remember if i did a junk gun or not. but engrave something, that is mandatory !!!!!!! even if it's a piece of plumbers' pipe ! you must get on the bike & ride.
 

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