Another newbie

marziale00

Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2009
Messages
7
Location
Springboro, OH
My primary interest is engraving on long rifles and pistols (muzzleloaders)

I have built a couple with engraving on the locks, patchboxes, and sideplates.

I used geisswien (sp?) die sinker chisels reground to 90 degrees, hammer driven. I also ground some chisels with fine points from 1/8" and 3/16" oil hardening drill rod.

Although the results were not bad I had to heavily sand and polish after the work. There were raised burs on both sides of the lines.

I have tried to push engrave without any luck getting a continuous chip (which I do get with chisels) unless pushing to a line.

I have made chip borders by cutting lines with the chisel and pushing to the line with a 120 graver, but a get a dent into the far side of the line.

I have a very hard time deepening a line or doing shape following shading.

So.......
- I clearly am not getting the gravers sharpened right
- I am having to force the tool thru the steel with too much force.
- I know from the material here that my heels are way too long.

Something that is unclear......

I have Lynton Mckenzie videa (recent add). He appears to form the heel so the back edge is 90 degrees to the the graver axis. Others look like they are parallel to the face plane....which is right?

I would like to learn more before buying an air tool or a power sharpener...

How about
- Some recommendations on cheaper sharpening aids ( is the Lindsay the way and can I get buy sharpening from a guide block or a bolt)
- Are there classes on hand work w/o the air tools. I would like to get more comfortable at the manual methods first


BTW.......I have tried a Gravermeister briefly for engraving (was actually doing woodcarving with it) with decent success, but the tools were sharpened on a GRS setup.

Also, has anyone used the GRS QC Chasing Tool Holder> It looks like a chisel handle for GRS QC tools, but from the info, its not clear thow he tool mounts.
 

Tira

~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
1,551
Location
Doylestown, PA
Welcome to the forum! Lots of questions - good thing there is a few lifetimes of wisdom on the forum to help you.

Sharpening is a difficult skill by hand at first. The good news is that once you learn the skill it will be with you for life and you will be able to tweek your tools exactly the way you want them to be. Having said that, McKenzie's videos explains the method he and many use by hand sharpening. Sam has a link here to a similar method: Sam's Hand Sharpening Info

As for the angles on the graver, the methods above put the facet perpendicular to the midline (like you mentioned). You can also have the facet parallel to the edge. Both have their uses. The parallel faces sometimes allow tighter turns, but the perpendicular facets allow for the tool to track straight for line work.

If you are trying to push the graver (not w/ hammer) you may want to practice on very soft metals like copper to begin with. I know it can be done on steel because Ron Smith demonstrated that to me personally when I asked him about hand pushing on steel. However, most people start to gain control on softer metals if they will be hand pushing.

The GRS tool holders allow you to easily change tips on the chisel easily. You mount your gravers in the quick change holders and those pop in and out of the chisel end. It's an easy way to change graver without having a handle for each chisel.

Hopefully some of the H/C guys will be able to chime in and give you some advice too. Good luck. :)
 

Brian Marshall

~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
3,112
Location
Stockton, California & Taxco, Guerrero, Mexico
Hi marziale00,


My first suggestion would be to fill in your personal profile so that members of the forum who might be close to you and willing to share can contact you...

Also, once we know that - it's easier to direct you to closer/local suppliers and services.


Brian Marshall
Stockton Jewelry Arts School
Stockton, CA USA 95209
209-477-0550
instructor@jewelryartschool.com
 

monk

Moderator
Staff member
::::Pledge Member::::
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
10,857
Location
washington, pa
for a beginner tool geometry is one priority that must be resolved asap. without repeatable & consistent tool points, you wont likely get consistent cutting. gravermeisters are good machines, and will serve you for a lifetime if cared for properly.
based on your intro, i'd advise purchasing the james b. meeks book, " the art of engraving". it gives a birds eye look aT MOST OF THE REQUIREMENTS YOU'LL NEED FOR WHAT YOU WILL WANT TO DO.check our "buy & sell" section at the page top. you may find a used sharpening system for sale. a diamond-based sharpening system is one thing i advise for all beginners, even one who wishes to avoid spending much cash.
 

marziale00

Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2009
Messages
7
Location
Springboro, OH
Diamond sharpening

How about the Lndsay system ? I have alot of stones from woodwork. I was thinking of buying the Lindsay sharpening guide with and a 1200 grit dimaond stone.

Are the power sharpening systems vastly superior to this ?
 

Sam

Chief Administrator & Benevolent Dictator
Staff member
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Messages
10,490
Location
Covington, Louisiana
Welcome to the Cafe, marziale. It would be nice to know your first name :)

Here's a post I did awhile back showing McKenzie's heeling method which I used for many years.

Pros: Cheap, fast, relatively easy.
Cons: only works with square gravers, results only as good as the person doing the sharpening, subject to minute variations of lift angle (easily overcome with practice), and you still have to sharpen the face by hand and without a guide.

For my work I use the GRS Dual Angle fixture and PowerHone which I find will sharpen nearly every style and configuration I want or need. Cheap? No, but you could use the fixture on bench stones instead of the PowerHone.

I've not tried Lindsay's system.

Here's to a great 2010! / ~Sam
 

marziale00

Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2009
Messages
7
Location
Springboro, OH
Your method is not far from what I have been doing. Have uses similar methods to sharpen wood tools with good success. I clearly put WAY too long a heel on however.

Going to retry and see what happens. Also ordered some copper to play with using push gravers.
 

Jim Sackett

Elite Cafe Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2007
Messages
828
Location
Hallock, Minnesota, United States
Welcome marzial00

I use the old Crocker Style sharpener with a hard Arkansas oil stone and 01 to 04 emery paper for polishing. The Crocker sharpener has three different angle settings with scales for each. It works good for me. Sells for about 50.00.

Jim Sackett
 
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