Critique Request Is this design working?

Doc Mark

~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Joined
Nov 16, 2006
Messages
1,284
Location
Hampton, Virginia
I've been screwing around with this ribbon design for so long that I've lost all objectivity! So does this design work well or does it need more effort? The ribbon "face" will have a simple, more geometric design to be determined later. I am just uncertain as to the flow characteristics of the intertwined leaf pattern. Obviously, the shading is not yet indicated on the leaf parts. The background will be relieved and stippled. This is to be a Sterling bracelet for my wife. It will be 6" x 3/4".

Any help will be very appreciated!

Mark
 

Attachments

  • Ribbon-Bracelet.jpg
    Ribbon-Bracelet.jpg
    60.6 KB · Views: 309

Tim Wells

~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
1,331
Location
Dallas, Georgia
Where the leaf comes out in the open spaces, it seems to me that the flow stops there. This is because the leaf is growing from 90 degrees rather than from the direction that the vine is coming from and the tip of the leaf should be pointed roughly in the direction that the vine is going.

You can create a leaf shape suitable to fill that area with a balanced amount of negative space around the leaf and I bet your eye will keep on going along that border.
 

mdengraver

~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
3,595
Location
Rockville, MD
My Own Two Cents

It's funny I'm not as experienced at this as Mr. Wells but I kind of like the design as it is. But I understand Mr. Wells explanation on how to improve the design also.
 

John B.

Lifetime Pledge Member
::::Pledge Member::::
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
3,950
Location
Los Angeles area, California.
Hi Doc,
I really like your design just as is.
Very pretty and will make a beautiful bracelet for the lucky lady.
You might also give Tim's idea a try by bringing the big leaf out from under the one that precedes it but either way you've got a winner on your hands.
You have some very interesting leaf and ribbon shapes going for you.
Happy New Year, hope to see you in Reno.
 

Doc Mark

~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Joined
Nov 16, 2006
Messages
1,284
Location
Hampton, Virginia
Thanks for the input guys.

Tim, does this work better? I know the leaf is still at 90 degrees to the "stem" but last week I tried to fill the triangular space with a more traditional scroll and then a leaf but they just didn't look right to me. This modification seems to flow better without removing the large tri-leaf design completely. I saw the large leaves as more of a "counterpoint" to the ribbon and the rest of the scroll. Something that "made sense" to a viewer, no matter how the bracelet was seen on the wrist.

Mark
 

Attachments

  • Ribbon-Bracelet-2.jpg
    Ribbon-Bracelet-2.jpg
    48.2 KB · Views: 165

Dennis Sprague

Elite Cafe Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2007
Messages
111
Location
Prairieville, Louisiana
Hello Doc
Both designs look very good to me also, but I am wondering how you are going to tie the shading into the stem on the first drawing.The fold's on the bottom side's of the leaf could overlap and that would keep the shading in the body of the leaf. Then shade the fold toward The background so the highlight of the fold would tie into the stem. I am looking forward to see how you handle this area.
Happy New year:beerchug:
Dennis
 

Marcus Hunt

~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
1,799
Location
The Oxfordshire Cotswolds, England
Hi Doc, both designs work well in my book too. My only concerns would be a) what size this will be when cut and b) the cross hatching in the second design.

To me, the optimum size is going to be the same or larger than the second thumbnail because otherwise a lot of the detail you've put into the design will be lost if it's any smaller. This is a bit of a quandary though as the design suits being a border the same size as the first thumbnail. If going for the smaller option I'd be tempted not to over run the leaf into the ribbon. With the larger option it doesn't matter so much as the shading will throw the leaf forward.

Regarding cross hatching, on the inside of the ribbon it should be at 90º to the shade lines. If on the outer fold then it should run parallel with the edge. Remember to keep the hatching lines very light and well spaced at the beginning with them gradually getting closer together as the shading gets darker.

Can't wait to se the finished result!
 

mdengraver

~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
3,595
Location
Rockville, MD
This raises an interesting question?

This raises an interesting question? Do the general rules always have to be followed. That is, in this case, if it works, why would the leaves have to necessarily flow with the rest of the design. I like the fact that the leaves flow differently. For me, it makes the design more interesting since it seems most designs go with the flow.
 

Doc Mark

~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Joined
Nov 16, 2006
Messages
1,284
Location
Hampton, Virginia
Dennis, yes the shading is going to be difficult in that particular area. I had the entire "concave ribbon stem" entering the tri-leaf, which allowed an even flow into the leaf for easier shading. But, then the continuation of the stem from behind into the next leaf element made no sense. So I compromised, and allowed the stem to "curl over" into the tri-leaf, which allowed the continuation of the stem to seem more natural. It's not a great solution, but it's the best I've discovered so far.

Marcus, the hatching indicated is just a quick sketch. I will have difficulty keeping the shading and cross hatching lines light enough. Working in Sterling, I tend to go too deep into the soft metal. The final bracelet will be 3/4" wide by 6" long.

Mark
 

John B.

Lifetime Pledge Member
::::Pledge Member::::
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
3,950
Location
Los Angeles area, California.
Doc Mark,
I see no problem really in your first design and think I like it better than the second.
The tri-leaf not going with the flow is quite often used in some classic Greco-Roman borders. Just a look through some Dover border books will show some of these.
As far as a place to terminate the shading how about making the turn over portions of the first lobes meet and flow into one line which leads the eye down the stem in the direction of growth. The shade lines for the upper lobes could then end against this.
Just a quick thought.
 

John B.

Lifetime Pledge Member
::::Pledge Member::::
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
3,950
Location
Los Angeles area, California.
More ribbon & scroll borders.

Mark,
Here are some ribbon and scroll borders by Karl Klimsch, from Dover book “Florid Victorian Ornamentâ€￾ ISBN 0-486-23490-8.
The one with the arrow is very much like your first version with a tri-leaf in a near vertical position. It looks great IMO.
You might also notice his solution to shading the tri-leaf.
The border at the bottom of this sheet has a pretty handsome tri-leaf that could maybe serve if you decide to go with a leaf that flows with the scroll.
I also added another page that some of our bracelet makers might find inspiring.
Best to all and happy New Year.
 

Attachments

  • scan0006.jpg
    scan0006.jpg
    71 KB · Views: 41
  • scan0007.jpg
    scan0007.jpg
    80.5 KB · Views: 40

Doc Mark

~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Joined
Nov 16, 2006
Messages
1,284
Location
Hampton, Virginia
Thanks John,

I should have known I'd seen this design concept before! I pulled my copy of the same book and was amazed at how close to the same design I had made. It was undoubtedly in my sub-conscious from seeing it years ago and here again, I thought I was being somewhat original. I guess it's true that "there is nothing new under the sun." Oh well, it's not going to stop me from using it for the bracelet.

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL THE FORUM MEMBERS!

P.S. John, I'm looking forward to seeing you again in Reno! Keep well.

Mark
 

John B.

Lifetime Pledge Member
::::Pledge Member::::
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
3,950
Location
Los Angeles area, California.
Hi Mark,
I love your design and am sure you started from scratch.
In no way was I implying that yours was any type of copy.
As you say, when it comes to decorative designs there is almost nothing totally new under the sun.
In our study of art we absorb, without realizing it, parts of good and pleasing designs that we are exposed to and our sub-conscious mind later brings them back into play.
Ribbon/scroll borders are an ageless classic and it would be very difficult to plow totally new ground in that genre.
Your variation is unique and beautiful and I can’t wait to see how you decide to engrave it.
Best regards, looking forward to seeing you in Reno.
 
Top