Scrolls and Curves

eastslope

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I would like to ask what makes it poor engraving from the standpoint of you folks being accomplished professional engravers. Its sort of looks lasered on to me, but other than that it looks cool. I am curious as too what you all think. Thanks, Seth
 

Sam

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The artistic quality of the design is mediocre in my opinion. It's not the worst design I've ever seen and I guess I'd give it a 2.5 on a scale of 1 to 5. It appears to be laser engraved and there's no way that it's going to have the quality and character of a chisel removing metal. Combine mediocre design and lifeless laser burning and this is what you get. The good news is this type of work is what makes hand engraving stand out in the crowd.

This is my opinion. It may not be anyone else's. No doubt there are those who adore this type of engraving and that's fine.
 

DKanger

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Hey, they're commercially available, production guns, not high dollar customs. The Legacy is $2600 and the Montefrino is $1600 as shown. The info for the Legacy model shows it surrounded by gravers, implying that they are hand cut. I think I recall seeing a video somewhere of their sweat shop where their engravers are cracking out the receivers for these. Why would we expect them to be of the same quality as a $10K or more gun? They're a little higher grade gun for "Everyman" who can't afford better. They call it target marketing.
 

Sam

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I realize they're production guns and I don't expect them to be the same quality as an expensive gun. They've figured out a way to decorate a shotgun that doesn't require hand work and they're getting out of it exactly what they're putting into it. Personally, I'd prefer plain one over one that's decorated like that, but that's just me and I admit to being biased because I'm a hand engraver.
 

Chapi

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I was talking to a "gun collector" the other day and mentioned that I was learning engraving, and he said "don't bother, they have machines to do that now." I tried to convince him that there is a huge quality difference, but I didn't have any examples on hand to show him. I think showing people the difference is going to make or break this artform.
 

Sam

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While educating the multitudes is always a good way to promote our art, there will always be those who just don't care or recognize the difference. And there's nothing wrong with that. If the gun has some swirls and flying birds on it - regardless of how they were applied - that will be fine with some folks. Others will know the difference and want work that's cut by hand. Price point makes a huge difference of course. In the lower-end price ranges we can expect laser or etched designs. What I've noticed over the years is that the internet is educating many folks, from those buying an engagement ring to a fine shotgun. After browsing a few sites they're exposed to hand engraving, and many will see the difference and decide that's what they want.
 

Sandy

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Recently I purchased a laser engraved knife at a gun show. I was intending on engrave over it for practice and then give it to my great nephew for his birthday. It cost $10.00 at the last gun show I went to. However I think I will take Arnoud’s idea a step further. I am going to keep this knife so it can be compared to one that has been engraved by hand. I should be able to find another just like it and engrave the pattern by hand and let the customer make his own mind up. It should not be too hard for them to see the difference. The lifelessness of the laser engraving makes my engraving look great.:yes

Sandy
 

Andrew Biggs

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What is particularly scary is that a few years ago you could spot a laser engraving on a gun a mile away.

Now it's not always that easy. You have to get a bit closer to start noticing the differences, particularly with some of the deeper cut ones with animal scenes. Some of it is very well done and I can imagine that it will only get better.

But all in all they are just targeting separate markets and budgets. There is a very good market for both.

The one thing I absolutely hate on any gun is the name stamped in 3" high letters all over the action. Now that really is ugly and a good way to ruin the looks of a gun.

Cheers
Andrew
 

Ron Smith

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Most of us older engravers have been educating the public for 30+ years, and most of the culture still doesn't know the difference. What is really a shame, is that it only takes a few minutes to lazer engrave a pretty envolved design on something. The price they get for it is more relative to todays economy (That is profitable. Set up a machine and push a button). Hand engraving is doing 16, 17, 18, 19th century work in a 2009 mentality, invironment, and economy. It is pretty hard to compete with that. As a matter of fact, you can't. You have to stay within your audiences budget, and that would be because you aren't doing massive masterpiece jobs.

I believe you can only be successful (make an exceptable living) occupationally by doing bread and butter work until you get a name and a reputation, or work under someone else's name. That is not to say that it can't be done, but sometimes it is where you are and who you know.

So, education is the answer, and with all of us doing that it will get better for all of us.

I always hoped to see the day when the engraver was recieved as an aristocrat for his skill and talent, but there are just too many ignorant people out there and they like staying that way. But, you can't blame them for not ever being exposed to the differences. Some just don't care. That is just the way it is.

It is a skill that should be ranked amongst the finest and highest disciplines and should serve the wealthiest amongst us. It is just that people don't know that, so money and the cost of labor will decide engraving's fate. Inflation, mediocrates, and the high cost of cheap things has made the gap wider..........demand and supply is governed by the desires and wallets of the masses.

We got to make them want it.......................we are working on that.

Inspire and educate!

Maybe some day.

Ron S
 

Marcus Hunt

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An interesting thread is starting to develop here. Some lasers are fantastic but it always adds up to the same old thing 'crap in = crap out'.

As has been said some folks like anything so long as it's some form of engraving. If it's hand done that's a bonus to them but it can still be crap and they'd be happy. I think we'll never be able to compete with lasers in the long run and, no doubt, they'll get better and better. However, where we do beat the laser hands down is the bespoke stuff. In my view we have to sell "individuality" and get people interested in the fact that their gun, knife, ring, etc, is NOT the same as a million other people's. When the public can grasp the fact that they can have a one-off, hand created, quality item that no one else has we'll be on to a winner.

PS, like Sam, I'd rather have my gun unadorned than covered with poorly executed engraving done by machine or hand!
 

DKanger

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I did some more checking. The Legacy model has a steel receiver and the engraving is acid etched. The Montefredo (sic) has an aluminum receiver and they don't say how it's done.
 
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