Hand Engraving 416 Stainless

Steece

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Nov 9, 2006
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South Carolina
Thanks Sam for all the work and sweat you put into the Cafe...it looks great! I'm behind you all the way.

I have hand engraved jewelry items for a long time and now am preparing to enter knife engraving as well. I need a little help on getting educated about the different types of steel and their properties.

I looked at this "D'Holder" knife

http://www.cuttingedge.com/products/klc01921_s_guard_hunter

with a bolster made in 416 Stainless. Is the 416 Stainless on a finished knife to hard to hand engrave? On a piece like this is the stainless usually engraved before it is hardened?

Evidently these knives are hot items to someone....when I looked at them yesterday they were available for purchase but today they were all sold.

What do you guys think about a knife like this for a speculation piece? Good one?....or should I find another style? I am looking for a traditional style knife that I could do some gold inlay and sculpted engraving on around $800-$1000 for the knife.

Thanks in advance for your help guys (and gals)!

Steece
 

ron p. nott

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hi steece .. i do a lot of knives in the 416 and 410 range it cuts like mild steel and it also is good for gold inlaying i know you will like it . also may i suggest and it is only my openion stay away from 300 series ss i have found it to be very hard to engrave .. i hope this helps .. ron p.
 

Sam

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Good advice from Ron. The 300 series of stainless can be really stubborn stuff to cut. 416 is the standard for engraving on custom knives. Personally, I avoid blade steels (even before heat treating) altogether. I know some guys engrave them, but my pain threshold isn't that high.

D'Holder's a well known maker. I think fine engraving one of his knives would be a good bet for a sale. Others might have suggestions for other makers as well. / ~Sam
 

Steece

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Nov 9, 2006
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South Carolina
Ron,
Thank you for the advice I will certainly make a note of the info on different types of stainless.

I was in one of Sam's classes last week with Tira and she was very complimentary of how you helped her get started with hand engraving.

I would appreciate receiving some other suggestions of good knifemakers.

Steece
 

ron p. nott

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just about all of the well known knife makers are a good investment , i do a lot of work for w.d. pease and frank centofante , these 2 are a sure bet in the investment category .. Ron p.
 

monk

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i used to do a lot of custom knives. many of the makers wanted engraving on the blades. i never really knew what the alloys were, but even in the annealed state, these blades were nightmares to cut. i finally came to my senses and quit doing the blades.
 

Ray Cover

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I word about blades and blade steel.

What you guys are calling annealed is not really annealed. There is soft and then there is SsOoooooFfffffTtttt.

Blade steel off the shelf is not at its full softness. WHen a tool steel or knife steel is manufactured and it is made into bar stock it is prepared and hardened to its ideal machinable state. Most steels do not machine well if they are too soft. Therefore, it is slightly hard when it comes to the knifemakers door.

I have engraved 440c in its dead soft state and it is softer than 416 or mild steel. IT cuts like butter. As a matter fo fact the first one I did like this was so soft I accidentaly bent it with my bare hands before ever touching it with a tool. I like to never got that thing true again.

When cutting blade steel you must co-ordinate with the maker and it must be done while the knife is in process so the blade can be heat treated between the engraving being finished and the knife being asymbled (this particularly applies to folders).

The maker will have to soften the steel in his heat treat oven (each steel maufacturer has instructions for doing this with their product). THen he can send it to you for engraving.

Now you MUST be extremely careful at this point not to bend the blade which is a lot easier to do than you think. Today's handmade folders require as tight a tolerances to work as any fine swiss watch. Tweek that blade just a little and it binds and doesn't work.

Ray
 

Glenn

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Ray you've hit the nail square on the head. Hope any one who reads this thread pays heed to your advice. Once a precision blade is bent straightening is very close to the impossible.
 
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416 and 410 s/s

416 - 410 s/s are so close in content that this knifemaker will use either, also these two steels dont have enough carbon in them to harden to a point that they cant be filed sawn or graved. some makers say that the hardening of 410 -416 will enable you to put a better finish on these steels. I hard braze or silver solder my bolsters on the liners or frames and when I get through they seem to grave just fine. Remember that I am a rooky engraver, but I do know my knife frame and bolster materials well. Thanks Jack Davenport.
 

Marian Sawby

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Nov 10, 2006
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Sandpoint, Idaho
416 Stainless and some observations about 303

I think you will enjoy 416stainless, but you might find it a little "gummier" than gun steel. One top engraver I know preferred to engrave un-heat treated 416, but then the 416 is not as advertised, i. e., has neither the properties nor integrity of 416. Right now I have chosen to engrave only my husband, Scott Sawby's knives. He experimented with heat treating that would preserve the integrity of 416 and yet make engraving the knife less frustrating. He heat treats to a Rockwell hardness of 23, which is perfect for engraving while preserving the desirable and essential qualities for the metal to be considered 416 stainless.

The knife I am doing now is 303. We were trying that because it does not have to be heat treated, but I find it very difficult. It is much gummier, difficult to pop chips, and really dulls or breaks gravers. I have had the best luck with carbide gravers. 416 is a joy compared to this.
 
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Tom Curran

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Having done a lot of machining on 303, 304, and 416, I have to say that of them all, I like 416 the best. 304 is the WORST. The 300 series steels workharden to the point where they can no longer be cut.

tom
 

monk

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engraving on blade steel

am posting a couple pics of blades i did ages ago. at that time we knew nothing of such a thing as soft blade steel. the soft stuff was totally miserable to work. typically i would use heavy round gravers with a flat once in awhile. there was no delicate detailing. such was not in the cards, at least for me at that time.
 

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