info for hammer & chisel guys/ gals

KSnyder · Nov 13, 2006

Gentlemen /Sam , lots of great info in the tips& tricks section, however most of the advise/info is pointed at the power type equipment.

I know i'm in the minority using hammer & chisel but like the hand tool aspect.I understand the techniques etc. but would like to see a caveat as it applys to the h&c method of cutting IF it involves another type tool as a replacement for a power burr etc.
learning lots anyway,
thanks,
Kent

Sam · Nov 13, 2006

Hi Kent. Welcome to the Cafe, and glad you're enjoying the tips & tricks. Virtually all of the tips on iGraver can be adapted to hammer & chisel work, with the exception of power stippling. Aside from that, shading, backgrounds, straight lines, etc, are handled the same way. I'm sure there are other hammer & chisel guys in the Cafe that can put their 2-cents in.

I've considered doing a beginner's guide to hammer & chisel engraving for iGraver. / ~Sam

KSnyder · Nov 13, 2006

Thanks Sam,
be lookin' forward to it.
I'll be enjoying the Cafe' till then.
Kent

webad2006 · Dec 17, 2006

As a novice using hammer-chisel, I would love to see more beginer oriented material.

FANCYGUN · Dec 17, 2006

Using hammer and chisel is basicall the same tool set up as the other styles of engraving. Since I do all three styles the only real difference I have found is the angle i use on my heels might vary somewhat between the three because you are holding the tool differently in all three. There is a definate power surge in your brain when you chisel and it is very rewarding rolling the tool with yur left hand as you get into a rythem with the hammer in yur right. Find a hammer that you can cradle in your hand and just gently rock back and forth in your fingers. You're not driving nails. I also find it very advantagious to use a turntable type of set up that you can rotate with your feet as you hammer. Otherwise you are constantly repositioning yourself just to make a simple scroll or curve.

Ken Hurst · Dec 17, 2006

Hi Mr. Marty, why don't you tell us where you got your turntable and a few close-ups of it. Having always appreciated your work, I'd like to see your set-up. Best regrds, Ken

FANCYGUN · Dec 17, 2006

Hey Ken
Here's a photo of my turntable set up.....I can adjust the tilt and the height. I can lock it in position also so it doesn't pivot. I have my top half of my old magnablock vise on it. So I can pivot it with my feet or just turn it by hand when I do game scenes with my optivisor. I bought it many years ago at a gun show where there was another engraver set up doing his thing. I was fascinated by it and he told be he built it and made more than one......Of course i had to walk home with the spare one.

M A Smith · Dec 17, 2006

kSnyder & webad,
This is an attempt to be of some benefit to those who use hammer & chisel. Even though my opinion differs from that of Marty's, I respect his opinion and him. It is my independent opinion that there are some major differences in Hammer/Chisel vs power assisted. This is not an attempt to compare, but a realistic point of view. Being German born and German trained, we were trained to stand and walk around the work piece with our hammer & chisel. I now chose to sit when I do my work. It takes a considerable amount of cordination to use your hammer & chisel while walking around your vice. Now it is second nature to me, but as an apprentice it took me a little time to get used to. I also use power assisted tools which takes far less effort and from what I've read from other engravers starting out with power assisted tools, the learning curve is far shorter. The book Art of Engraving by James E Meeks, is an excellent resource for those experimenting with this technique. Conclusion...to any interested observers it is obvious to see that it isn't necessarily the tools we us but how we choose to master those tools. Here are a couple of pictures where hammer/chisel, power assisted and hand gravers were used.

Ken Hurst · Dec 17, 2006

Hey Marty, you wouldn't happen to have that engravers name and ph. number would you ? I would like to have one of those set-ups. Ken

FANCYGUN · Dec 17, 2006

Mark
You are right....Walking around your work is another way many "chiselers" choose to work. Also I have seen engravers hammer towards themselves rather than away as they feel they can see what they are doing better.

M A Smith · Dec 17, 2006

Hello Marty,
Its good to converse with you again. I like your work space; I also like your foot operated turntable. Very interesting. There is no better place than America to observe all the different techniques of execution.

John B. · Dec 17, 2006

Hi Marty, Mark, Mr. Ken and others.
You guys know all this.
But some of the newer folks can get a lot of information from an inexpensive book "The Basics of Firearms Engraving" by Neil Hartliep. This was originally published by the NRA and is available from Brownell's, www.brownells.com
It shows how to build both a stand-up, walk around post and a sit down, potters wheel type engraving bench.
I have and use both with hammer and chisel. I also use push and power assist.
For the new folks, use which ever system works for you and fits your pocketbook.
Great work can and is produced by all these different methods.
Hope this is some help.
John B.

M A Smith · Dec 17, 2006

hello john,
Any time you post a quote onto a thread it is a benefit to any who read it; including myself.
M A Smith

KSnyder · Dec 18, 2006

I usually stand up cutting but stand in one spot cuz the vise I use rotates 360deg. ( 4 jaw lathe chuck) one of these days I'm gettin' a sit down rig.

As for different tools we use , I like to recall the work of Lynton McKenzie done with hmr &chsl and push.
If I'm able to do more work after I retire in a couple years I may take the jump to lightspeed and go to air/ powr assist.
Still hackin' away,
Kent

Sam · Dec 18, 2006

After years of standing up with hammer & chisel, I put a kickwheel on my vise post and then turned it with my feet as I hammered (my vise was mounted on a steel post which rotated on a bearing in the floor). This was considerably faster (for me) than standing and walking around the vise.

KSnyder · Dec 18, 2006

Hey Sam, is this the Neil Hartliep "pottery wheel" vise? That's the direction I planned to go.
Kent

John B. · Dec 18, 2006

Hi Mr. Sam.

The kick wheel is especially useful when inlaying gold scroll work or lettering, I find.
It acts like an extra pair of hands when you need to bend the wire around to conform to the shape of the cavity to seat it in the groove.
At this time, we need one hand to hold the gold, another to hold the punch,
yet another to hold the hammer and still another to turn the vise.
Even if you seat it using air assist with a punch you still need at least three hands or you are constantly having to change tools in your hand.
Like you, I really find the kick wheel handy. Especially for inlay.
I find that I like the walk around post better for background removal and cavity cutting though.
Just what you get used to, don't you think?
I'm sure you could do great work standing on your head!
Power, hammer, push, sitting or standing.
They all can produce great work, don't you think?
Best regards and thanks for this enjoyable Cafe.
We owe you a cup of cofee or more.
John.

Sam · Dec 18, 2006

Hi John. Since I recently moved, I've not setup my old post vise so I don't have the kickwheel in use at this time. But I do LOVE that feature. You are right, even if you're not engraving, having the ability to turn the vise quickly while both hands are occupied is very, very handy for setting gold, polishing, etc.

Yes, I've seen and see great work produced by all methods. There are a number of handpiece users producing some of the finest work we've ever seen, and of course Winston Churchill, Alain Lovenberg, Phil Grifnee and others are producing amazing work with hammer & chisel. The time has never been better and the options never greater than what we're experiencing today.

I'm glad you're enjoying the Cafe. Your participation is helping it be the fun, relaxed, and informative place that it is, and I value you being here. Thank you, John. / ~Sam

John B. · Dec 18, 2006

Thanks Sam.
Hope you guys didn't have to move because of storm damage from Katrina?
Poor old Louisiana really took their lumps in that one.
John B.

KSnyder · Dec 18, 2006

Sam & John,
is the post/ shaft set in a bearing? What diameter post or shaft did you use for the kick wheel vise?
thanks,
Kent

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